Amarid/technora natural crotch rigging line?

[*useless info*]

Rigging on own mostly can take some load off ground crew and allow them to stay more focussed, minimizing need to break off.
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So much more control with line sweated tight, and line tightening before the support frictions added also.
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Also, hinging long branch down into rope tied near CoG so self tightens rigging rope before tearoff for less impact. Heavier stuff might even take overhead Round Turn on support.

 

[southsoundtree]

True Blue has energy absorbing stretch, and still around 6-7k breaking, IIRC.
Cheap enough, too.
No rotation, as with three-strand tree-master.



Static strength is not the same as real world loading with high peak impacts, cushioned by the rope itself, and Hopefully the roper. With short sections of rope in play, as with aerial friction, that cushion helps.

 

[RBJtree]

I used to run my own ropes a lot. Then one day an old guy on the crew I was working with said to me, "these guys live to run ropes, let them do it." It's something that a lot of ground guys look forward to. It's fun and it makes them more than just labor help. No one wants to do nothing but grunt all day. I still run my own ropes on occation, or take over so a ground guy can push or pull something into position. It's also pretty rare that both ends of the rope are near me.

 

[*useless info*]

i think of Rope as yin/yang mix of macho raw strength + 'female forgiveness' (please excuse oxymoron) to task.
>>At any rate look for elasticity to get mad/injured and leave line first, eventually most can come back (in hours especially), but some wears out of line permanently. Permanent losses build over time etc.
Leaving perhaps closer to origianl strength, than original elasticity in due course.
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Tighter/static line more towards cable lifting or pre-tightening to be main support before tearoff.
>>because shocks to stiffer line conducting thru support system, tightening knots more, testing ropes,support, ground men etc.
Easier to allow longer limb to pretighten self thru hinging down with tighter line , even if not pretight enough. Static/less dynamic line mix pre-tightens self faster.
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More dynamic line better for load switching over to line AFTER tearoff;so impacts line
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Hang time on hinge is between movement and tearoff, can be magical twilight point to play with of 2 supports possible (hinge and rope) during movement, 1 is expendable after positioning, handing off to other (hinge hands off to rope)
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Allowing longer horizontal to pretighten self is one trick in this 'twilight' between connected and not of during change/movement.
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Dynamic line can of course put more forgiveness in the system and not transfer as much especially of raw hit/impact.
Tho less so when less line, especially before support frictions; like at start of loading/before lowering.
>>So might let run a lil before catch to have more elastic line length before hit if play rite.
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Counter-Intuitive point (perhaps) to next level, to illuminate functions more:
1000# in a 2/1 on inline support(s) impacts like would at 500# on single line (much greater)
>>the elasticity from given line is calc'd @ percentage of line tensile en-roached on
(so in doubling line capacity have different shock range)
>>the scale of change is a sliding logarithm type, not simple incremental
Can get significantly more hit per rope type from this effect.
>>More spread supports do leverage line to higher tension on 2/1, but also can get severe side loading, especially before lowering.
>>so once again some lowering before impact can playout for more elastic line length for hit and less sharp/leveraged line angle taking hit

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Since it’s introduction thirty plus years ago True Blue has been the go-to rope for continuous natural crutch rigging. Rarely have I seen it melted or frayed up bad

It’s my favorite rope color but I’ve never bought any. Haha

 

[Tr33Climb3r]

When I used to do all natural crotch rigging with my dad I would prefer the true blue. I also liked the 3 strand we ran on occasion. Now these days I use pulleys and rings. I prefer double braid now and had the red/white Teufelberger rigging line and loved the cover. I wish more double braids had a tighter cover. It just feels better in the hand. I know when we get our Teufelberger order together I look forward to stocking those rigging ropes.

 

[Matias]

I hope no one thought I was seriously considering continuing to use this rope for rigging, or climbing on it. Good grief, lol.

For better or for worse, my boss uses that same rope for almost everything, and before I went on leave because of a non work related injury, the same glazed ass rope, looking 10x worse than that, was on the truck was still seeing use for natty crotch rigging, which is still more than half of the takedown jobs we do. He's been at it since spring of '72, so good luck getting him to change. He keeps asking if I'm ready to climb his way, thinking that any day now, I'll see the light and throw out my zigzag. He ties this knot that doesn't really even hold properly and he is always readjusting. He calls it a monkey fist, and it's about 60% of Blake's hitch. Two wraps up and a half hitch underneath. He's 70 this winter, and has an amazing record. He's a legend around these parts, and I've been impressed, and happy to learn some of the stuff that he's shown me, but I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment that a rope that glazed is getting downgraded. I have 2 year old ropes that still look mostly new after I wash them.

 

[96coal449]

Hmmmm. I don't think many will agree with this. Setting up rigging for a good efficient climber is straight forward with good planning. And boy does it save you a lot of grief. An odd natty is ok but using it for a whole tree is plain painful. Get some treemaster if that is your thing or like mentioned above trueblue.....

No rotation, as with three-strand tree-master

I love the Sampson Treemaster for natty crotch rigging. Only downside is it's tendency to rotate. I don't use it often but it's great when needed for a 3 strand. I have it in 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4''. I use my 1/2 for a closed loop climbing line in conifers. Especially white pine. I'd rather abuse the treemaster in sap. Old school climbing or sometimes with a 16-strand split tail.

The 5/8 and 3/4 get used less. One silver maple saw the 5/8 for a 8'' dia, about 25' long branch over a house. Established my TIP, set my 5/8 natty, walked out a bit to balance and tied off. Put it on the ground for a cut and leave. A quick and easy peasy $400 for lil under an hours time.

The 3/4 was only used once, so far, early last summer. I took down two Norwood maples. During this the HO asked me about trimming a "branch" from a very large oak. It was about 15-20' off the ground and followed the back fence line, directly above. Most of the tip was over the neighbors yard whom did not see eye to eye with the HO. Lowering into his yard was not going to happen. I save one nearby maple as a gin pole. A 5/8 and 3/4 DB ropes for the tip tie. Porty and GRCS at the base. Used the GRCS to lift and rotate the brush away from the fence to fit in the allowed space in HO's yard. Set the ropes in the oak limb with poles after hanging them from blocks in the gin pole. Set a TIP in oak and used the 3/4 treemaster, natty crotch, for a butt tie with a second porty. The butt was about 18'' in dia. The whole thing swung away from the fence like clock work. I have more rigging and could have set a block but some of my gear is with another guy I frequently work with.

The treemaster did the job with no glazing.

 

[96coal449]

When I need 1/2'' I like Sampsons's Pro master. I have New England's 1/2'' Multiline but that stuff is so soft and nice in the hands, I reserve it for tag lines and very light duty tasks.

 

[Friedrich]

For better or for worse, my boss uses that same rope for almost everything, and before I went on leave because of a non work related injury, the same glazed ass rope, looking 10x worse than that, was on the truck was still seeing use for natty crotch rigging, which is still more than half of the takedown jobs we do. He's been at it since spring of '72, so good luck getting him to change. He keeps asking if I'm ready to climb his way, thinking that any day now, I'll see the light and throw out my zigzag. He ties this knot that doesn't really even hold properly and he is always readjusting. He calls it a monkey fist, and it's about 60% of Blake's hitch. Two wraps up and a half hitch underneath. He's 70 this winter, and has an amazing record. He's a legend around these parts, and I've been impressed, and happy to learn some of the stuff that he's shown me, but I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment that a rope that glazed is getting downgraded. I have 2 year old ropes that still look mostly new after I wash them.

if you use ropes for natural crotch rigging and throw out or downgrade your ropes the moment they become glazed, you will become poor rather quickly.

 

[Matias]

if you use ropes for natural crotch rigging and throw out or downgrade your ropes the moment they become glazed, you will become poor rather quickly.

Definitely wasn't arguing otherwise; rather the opposite. My boss seems to be alright after 5 decades of doing it that way, on shit I would never put back into service. There's all kinds of ways to get it done, and learning to assess risk is just part of it.

 

[Matias]

How quickly are you lowering pieces? If you’re using remote rigging points in trees that are to stay, zipping loads down will not only glaze your rope, but will also cook the tree you’re rigging from.

I totally understand your reasoning, and agree that remote, natty fork rigging can be a quick solution, but it’s important to adjust technique to protect both rope and tree.

Compared to the cost of replacing a tree, you'll see me using any tool I can buy if it means I won't be responsible for the death of the tree. CA tree laws are no joke.

 

[Vicente]

For better or for worse, my boss uses that same rope for almost everything, and before I went on leave because of a non work related injury, the same glazed ass rope, looking 10x worse than that, was on the truck was still seeing use for natty crotch rigging, which is still more than half of the takedown jobs we do. He's been at it since spring of '72, so good luck getting him to change. He keeps asking if I'm ready to climb his way, thinking that any day now, I'll see the light and throw out my zigzag. He ties this knot that doesn't really even hold properly and he is always readjusting. He calls it a monkey fist, and it's about 60% of Blake's hitch. Two wraps up and a half hitch underneath. He's 70 this winter, and has an amazing record. He's a legend around these parts, and I've been impressed, and happy to learn some of the stuff that he's shown me, but I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment that a rope that glazed is getting downgraded. I have 2 year old ropes that still look mostly new after I wash them.

I know a guy that's 72 he climbs on the "monkey fist" as well, constantly talks crap about anything that isn't that/ the way he climbs.