Amarid/technora natural crotch rigging line?

Elasticity looks compromised, probably some strength too.
Is it stiff on glazed sections?
>>would indicate more damage and weaker as stiffer/more leveraged on bend.
.
Wouldn't climb on it, might use for lighter stuff, longer length has more utility value.
Always have fresh line so never backed into corner of compromise.
Look to put wear on worn lines when can, downgrade path to home made eye slings, dragging lines, tie downs, give always etc. Just to keep more premium lines preserved.
 
*useless info* said:
Elasticity looks compromised, probably some strength too.
Is it stiff on glazed sections?
>>would indicate more damage and weaker as stiffer/more leveraged on bend.
.
Wouldn't climb on it, might use for lighter stuff, longer length has more utility value.
Always have fresh line so never backed into corner of compromise.
Look to put wear on worn lines when can, downgrade path to home made eye slings, dragging lines, tie downs, give always etc. Just to keep more premium lines preserved.
Click to expand...
That line is toast. It has the hand of a frayed high tensile cable. It will go into service as a spare hand pulling line untill I chop it up for, like you said, eye slings, ect. Only about 50 feet is burnt, there is still 100 feet of good rope there. It will not go to waste, but it's days as a rigging line are over. I always have a spare or three.
 
RBJtree said:
Does this rope look ok to use? Asking for a freind.[/QUOTE

Short answer...no.

Medium answer...not for rigging.

Longer answer...

I know you said you're not talking about techniques...only ropes. No matter what rope you use you're going to melt it or wear it out from trunk wrap friction. Until you use wire rope that is.

Much longer answer...

But it seems like you're being told by your groundie that ancient ways are OK. Natural crotch rigging for removal went out decades ago. So did trunk wraps for friction.

How come people can claim that they don't want to learn and change but continue to be allowed to use such high tech systems like indoor plumbing, central heat, mobile phones...get it?

Would you continue using a rope if I used a knife and made a cut 30% though? My guess is that melting is equal to at least a 30% strength loss.

But, go with what you're comfortable with...until it breaks. Then what? Hopefully only a divit in the grass not on someone's head.

Would you hire a mechanic with a tool box full of Crescent wrenches and hammers and expect that they're going to be able to fix your vehicles? Just because they 'don't like learning new things'?
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I apologize if I was less than ideally receptive to the constructive criticism yesterday. I am working on modernizing our techniques. I believe the triple thimble will help with keeping my ground guy happy and maximally productive while decreasing rope wear and increasing theoretical safety. I say theoretical saftey because I have never had a rope break or damage occur due to my ancient and antiquated techniques, but I do recognise the warranted concern and I am taking steps to improve. It's a bit of a learning curve for me. In the companies I worked for before becoming self employed, there was no one using modern techniques. All natty rigging and tail tied tautline hitches. All of the modernization I have done I have had to self learn. At times it has cost me time and money taking the time to develope a new skill set, although in the long run the increase in efficiency is worth it. So, thank you all for the feed back.
 
Tri thimble is pretty sweet. Rope man will adapt easily, but a little trial is required as # of holes threaded can vary the friction. All three holes is a pretty good break just pulling the rope thru, no load, can get tough with long ropes.
 

Before I could form a reply, my question would be, "use" for what?

I cannot assume RBJ's intentions or the, "use" he refers to. I'm a "glass half full" sort of person. I see some good in it.
 
Graeme McMahon said:
Before I could form a reply, my question would be, "use" for what?
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I'm with you @Graeme McMahon ...I took it to mean as a rigging rope in the context of the thread and questions.

I've pulled the core out of rope and used it to cover the wires going to a small trailer. Much getter in the cold winter than any split plastic wire looms. Dog leashes..clothes lines...

But burned up rope...no..chop it into 6ix foot sections and trash it. The rest is for brush tie downs or ground dragging debris.
 
RBJtree said:
I apologize if I was less than ideally receptive to the constructive criticism yesterday. I am working on modernizing our techniques. I believe the triple thimble will help with keeping my ground guy happy and maximally productive while decreasing rope wear and increasing theoretical safety. I say theoretical saftey because I have never had a rope break or damage occur due to my ancient and antiquated techniques, but I do recognise the warranted concern and I am taking steps to improve. It's a bit of a learning curve for me. In the companies I worked for before becoming self employed, there was no one using modern techniques. All natty rigging and tail tied tautline hitches. All of the modernization I have done I have had to self learn. At times it has cost me time and money taking the time to develope a new skill set, although in the long run the increase in efficiency is worth it. So, thank you all for the feed back.
Click to expand...
The triple thimble is a great device (avoid use in pines). If you switch to a larger rope for larger wood, the friction usually builds to allow your ground help to still use hands only vs bringing out a porty. As Rope-a-dope mentioned, the friction added when pulling it back up is the caveat, but rarely negates it’s overall effectiveness.

One tip- dont tie your line to a piece while there’s a lot of slack between you and the thimble if you’re using more than one hole, as pulling the slack while the rope end is anchored will add crazy twist to the line. Allow the ground hand time to pull most slack out first, and there’s no problem.
 
Best rugged rope for natural crotchin' (if you're into that kind of thing...) IMO is the bluestreak series. Not an aramid containing rope as to the original question, but it is so tough and doesn't pick like others in that use. Rarely had a glazing issue but seemed to hold up to *fairly* rapid lowering for years.
Bummer on your groundie being set in their ways...but damn man, get that guy to buck up and portawrap that shit!
 
My guy knows how to use the porta wrap, he just has trouble with it sometimes. We have a long history. It's 51% my fault for not planning better and insisting on using our block and taking the time to set it up.
I wonder if the Stein rc might cause less hockeling?
 
Don’t apologize for natural crotch rigging. I saw Don Blair speak at an arborist meeting one time and he said, “Sometimes it just makes sense to throw a line over a crotch and make your cut”. Three strand ropes are relatively cheap. Replace them when they get worn and keep working. I’ve always liked Treemaster for a 1/2” line and New England Ropes Multiline for 5/8”.
 
A bigger diameter line will hold up to abrasion better than a smaller diameter. So even though a 1/2” line can handle the weight, going with a 5/8” line will make your lines last longer where your doing lots of roping, faster letdowns, etc.
 
A ratchet strap (long end around tree, with strap choking on the hook, buckle hanging down) will hold the POW upright.

Clockwise, then counter-clockwise, then clockwise on the drum of the lowering device reduced hockles.

Shorter ropes don't hockle.
Shorter ropes work better with Aerial Friction.

If your rigging points top out at 75', and you run a 100' rope, the groundie catches and passes it to you. All hockles fall out. Rig on the other end while the groundman is busy clearing the last piece.

Symmetry in your friction device makes it easy to rig the same stuff without changing the friction set-up, running both ends.

IDK if the Triple Thimble is different friction depending on the end...asymmetry in your lowering device can give you two friction 'settings' depending on which end of the rope you use...more helpful when the lowering point is remote, relative to the climber.


Self-lowering makes the job of the groundie way easier. Even if he get the POW down, aerial friction is like another guy on the job when it comes to lowering. I lower and can land a lot of stuff in tight places from natural crotches or BMS Belay Spool or POW. Saves so much effort.
 
self lowering on removals is why I have switched to using natural crotch a lot lately, I know it can be done with rings and other devices but natural has been working great as long as you choose the correct rope.

another rope that I use with natural crotch is Samson hawkeye, its a 16 strand and has been holding up great
 
Jehinten said:
self lowering on removals is why I have switched to using natural crotch a lot lately, I know it can be done with rings and other devices but natural has been working great as long as you choose the correct rope.

another rope that I use with natural crotch is Samson hawkeye, its a 16 strand and has been holding up great
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Yeah the Arbormaster series is great for rigging. @Roger_Barnett why do you prefer True Blue for natural crotching? Tensile is higher with Bluestreak/Hawkeye etc, does TB wear nicer?
 
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