Advancing the TIP

[dogwood]

I would rather not use lead for the same reason. Also I'm liking the magnets. I found a Weaver bag which is non lead. I think it's steel shot but not sure. I've loaded up a couple of chalk boxes with 50 lb. braided spectra fishing line to see how it works. My idea is to come up with a compact light weight system that works. I'll let you know.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

I've loaded up a couple of chalk boxes with 50 lb. braided spectra fishing line to see how it works. My idea is to come up with a compact light weight system that works. I'll let you know.

I use the Spectra fishing line in my fishing reel used for the 200' shots with the big shot. moss recommended it to me and I have been very happy with it there but I have never tried it in the chalk reel. I love the sound of that stuff screaming out of the line to hit those 150' plus TIPs.
Seems like it might be a little too small on the hands and even more tangle prone than the 1.4mm stuff.
I will be interested to hear how it works.

 

[TreeLogic]

it works with fishing reels i would think it'd work with a chalkline reel too.

 

[TreeLogic]

Of course the design of a chalkline reel could cause hockles in the Spectra. Curious to hear how it works.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Of course the design of a chalkline reel could cause hockles...

Can you explain that to me, I'm not sure I understand.

 

[dogwood]

Of course the design of a chalkline reel could cause hockles in the Spectra. Curious to hear how it works.

I think the problem is that this line needs to be deployed directly from a spool or reel, so a spin casting reel would work best. The chalk reel has too much resistance, so you have to pull out the line you need before shooting, opening up the likely possibility of massive tangles.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The line in my chalkline reel is yellow spectra. Its like thick dental floss. I don't expect it to unreel when I throw because there is so much friction on the spool. There's a reason that we can buy chalklines for a few dollars and fishing reels for tens of dollars.

 

[TreeLogic]

Can you explain that to me, I'm not sure I understand.

Pretty much what dogwood said

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Pretty much what dogwood said

Yes, tangles I do understand. ;-)

 

[dogwood]

Hockles and tangles, alive alive O!

 

[dogwood]

The line in my chalkline reel is yellow spectra. Its like thick dental floss. I don't expect it to unreel when I throw because there is so much friction on the spool. There's a reason that we can buy chalklines for a few dollars and fishing reels for tens of dollars.

That's interesting. Mine is like thread. Do you like the way it works?

 

[moss]

When faced with a vertical stretch of limbless trunk, and no opportunity to make a throw w/monkeyfist, weighted lanyard end, or my in-tree throwline kit I do the following: Cinch my lanyard around the trunk through the carabiner on the end of the lanyard. Gate is set facing up. I push the cinch up as high as I can on the trunk and tighten it up. Climb the lanyard SRT using my Pantin , move the hitch up all the way to the cinch. Repeat with my main climbing line, alternate until I'm able to advance the TIP over a limb. I get a lot of flack for this technique "Yer side loading the biner!". If the leader diameter is greater than 5-6" there is no room for the carabiner to bend or side load. I do not use this type of cinch for a "remote" setting, only for the situation described. Been doing it for years.
-AJ

 

[moss]

Also, I use that technique with my lanyard quite a bit to get that one step higher so I can monkeyfist my main line over a limb. I've been using my in-tree throwing kit very little the last couple years.
-AJ

 

[dogwood]

When faced with a vertical stretch of limbless trunk, and no opportunity to make a throw w/monkeyfist, weighted lanyard end, or my in-tree throwline kit I do the following: Cinch my lanyard around the trunk through the carabiner on the end of the lanyard. Gate is set facing up. I push the cinch up as high as I can on the trunk and tighten it up. Climb the lanyard SRT using my Pantin , move the hitch up all the way to the cinch. Repeat with my main climbing line, alternate until I'm able to advance the TIP over a limb. I get a lot of flack for this technique "Yer side loading the biner!". If the leader diameter is greater than 5-6" there is no room for the carabiner to bend or side load. I do not use this type of cinch for a "remote" setting, only for the situation described. Been doing it for years.
-AJ

I've been thinking about doing just that. The trees in the woods are mostly structured that way, with long leaders and fewer opportunities to tie into a crotch.

 

[moss]

I would like to see an oval carabiner design with a very slight curve in the spine. The theoretical design would meet minimum 22 or 23kn on a straight pull in normal use but would be super sweet and 200% copacetic for use in a cinched system.

 

[dogwood]

I believe a webbing loop would work great for that purpose.

 

[oceans]

I would like to see an oval carabiner design with a very slight curve in the spine. The theoretical design would meet minimum 22 or 23kn on a straight pull in normal use but would be super sweet and 200% copacetic for use in a cinched system.

I've been thinking about something like this for a while now, too. I think what might be better is some add in "humps"...like band-its but much heavier duty and thicker. They would be located in the four "corners" of the biner to keep the actual metal from making contacts with anything on less than flat surfaces. They'd have to be secure, but somehow still allow things to easily be connected or disconnected. I guess it could be most useful for quick attachment of a lanyard in cinching single leg mode, or base anchor type things. Heck, maybe a real heavy duty version could work for rigging applications. Hmmmmm...

 

[Tony]

I've been thinking about something like this for a while now, too. I think what might be better is some add in "humps"...like band-its but much heavier duty and thicker. They would be located in the four "corners" of the biner to keep the actual metal from making contacts with anything on less than flat surfaces. They'd have to be secure, but somehow still allow things to easily be connected or disconnected. I guess it could be most useful for quick attachment of a lanyard in cinching single leg mode, or base anchor type things. Heck, maybe a real heavy duty version could work for rigging applications. Hmmmmm...

Interesting concept, but like all things, make something idiot proof and along comes a better idiot. Somebody would actually put it on a stem against the curve!

I understand the "flack" Moss describes, but his process as described, under the conditions given, in my mind, is a acceptable use for the carabiner. Are there ways around it? Could it be done differently? Yes, but in Moss's situation it is a case of an experienced climber, knowing the limits of his kit and using it to potential in a specific circumstance where the gear can properly function.

The problem I often see in climbing and rigging, is climbers will claim to know and observe the limits of choking a carabiner to the stem, follow those limits for a bit, then disregard them at convenience. Often this disregard comes from being lazy. Unfortunately, this improper use behavior gets passed on as acceptable to others less experienced/knowledgeable.

Sort of a side track, but I felt it was important to point out that all techniques and equipment we use have benefits and limitations, the "ying and yang" of kit, if you will. This becomes more and more apparent and important especially now as clever, intelligent minds develop/adopt new and different techniques into the tree climbing world.

By the way Oceans, ever figure out the answer to the last climbing question I asked you when last we spoke in person of tree climbing? It's O. K. if you don't remember. I just recently recalled I asked!

Tony

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

I would like to see an oval carabiner design with a very slight curve in the spine. The theoretical design would meet minimum 22 or 23kn on a straight pull in normal use but would be super sweet and 200% copacetic for use in a cinched system.

I have just gone to always having a screw line with me, part of my alpine butterfly methods of cinched anchors and the steel in them works with my magnets or you could always snag them with the grapnel. The little extra weight is not that big of deal plus when used as part of the monkey fist helps the toss.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

The specific challenge is with a stretch of branchless leader along my route. No spurs allowed.
Let's say 20 ft of relatively smooth stem before the next set of crotches.

In addition to the most common method of using loop runners, here is an option for creating a place to stand/climb when there is no limb. Adjustable, one foot loop to climb, two foot loops to stand.

At about 5:10 I'm using it just be be comfy on the stem. Using two of them I could climb a flag pole or with proper back up and a descent system you could even use this as an SRT climbing system.