24 strand rope vs 16

monkeylove

monkeylove

Been here much more than a while
Location
Roslyn, Pa.
I only own and have only climbed on 24 strand ropes. For those of you (most probably) that have climbed on both, would you go back to 16? Do the 16's work in mechanicals or just hitches? I currently climb on Vortex for both my SRT and DDRT, but thought I might be "needing" some 1/2" Arbormaster. Thanks.
 
New England 16 strands are very stretchy. i perfer the Sampson for that reason. I only use a foot ascender with the rope and it tends well after the first four feet or so. 16 strand rope would not be compatible with hand ascenders.
 
arbormaster (16 strand) is too stretchy for SRT unless you are working something smaller like a walnut orchard, in which case it is pretty nice.

i'd like some vortex when i get back to that orchard. my arbormaster is old and mellow now, no climbing.
 
Well fellas what would you guys recommend is the 16 strand category? Im using samson as of now and would like to try something different. Low stretch
 
Needing something to tie the canoe to the car? Buy the Arbormaster. 16 strand is heavy. If you wanna work smarter: Go 42 strand for SRT...Yale Kernmaster. 1/2" is stupidly never engineered, over sized, sorry you humans that have trouble with change, or you old euc people with big hands that like the feel of a way too fat rope. Tachyon or XTC for both SRT DRT or more "traditional" techniques. My new lanyard is 16 strand and that thing is HEAVY. I might just nick it on purpose with the hand saw.
 
I'd recommend Yale XTC. I don't recall it being very stretchy. Also, I would NOT recommend using ascenders on cover dependent kernmantles(arbo 16 strand ropes).
 
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Banjo,
I agree that it is scary to think about stripping the jacket off of a 16 although I did see some pics on this site of the results of drop tests with toothed ascenders. The 16's held up way better than the 24's if I remember correctly.

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If you can figure out a way to take a fall factor 2 fall while using toothed ascender then pay attention to the tests. I personally think the setup was not applicable to how I use ascenders, and it just adds to the unnecessary paranoia about using ascenders in tree work
 
Banjo,

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cover dependent kernmantles(arbo 16 strand ropes).

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Are you inventing terminology! A kernmantle rope is a specific construction. The exact opposite of a 16 strand arborist line.

No such beast as what you mention. Rope is either 16 strand arborist line OR kernmantle.

Not trying to nit pic, but I see a lot of confusion out there and miss use/misunderstanding of rope and terminology.


Mark,

I agree there is much unfounded paranoia out there on arborist ascender use! However, in cases where a remotely set line (i.e. throw bag) loops over an unseen sucker, a significant drop is possible. I hear of it quite often.

Again, I agree, the chance of parting rope is rare. Would it be better to have a damaged "stretchy" line or a static(meaning less than 3-5% elongation) line?

That is a question for individual climbers to decide situationally. One that can only be answered with knowledge and experience.

For me it comes down to more "right tool, right job" Mechanicals just work better on the double braids/kernmantle hybrids as opposed to the 16 strand arborist lines.

Not all rope elongation is bad. Static is not always the answer. (one must never forget the rope is anchored to something!)

Again it is right tool right job.

Tony
 
I'm a little confused about the elongation percentages shown in the chart. "Safety Blue" shows 4%, yet "True Blue" shows 3.46%. I tried climbing on True Blue before and it felt like a rubber band. Works fine for light rigging through blocks as the stretch actually helps disperse load throughout the line. Never felt that stretch on Safety Blue. Can anybody explain?
 
Tree Logic, I have no experience with Safety Blue, but have used True blue for a while. TB does have some stretch, the rope kind of "squares" up, but not as much as our other Arborplex rigging lines (my father bought two spools cheap). Did you rig with SB as well or just climb on it? The load difference between even light rigging and climbing are pretty substantial. TB is a solid braid as well, isn't SB something different?
 
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I'd recommend Yale XTC. I don't recall it being very stretchy. Also, I would NOT recommend using ascenders on cover dependent kernmantles(arbo 16 strand ropes).

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Not sure this is quite accurate. Kernmantle rope construction has all of the strength in the core, and the cover is just for abraision resistance. They can be found in static and all varieties of dynamic elongation. 16 and 24 strand ropes are both types of double braids; core and cover share the load.

The use of toothed ascenders should be left to kernmantle ropes where a fall would tear the cover and leave the load bearing core in tact. tearing the cover on either a 24 or 16 strand rope can significantly lower the strength of the rope.

If a fall is significant enough to tear into the core of any rope you will most likely have severe bodily damage.
 
I stand corrected about 16 strand rope construction. sorry for the false statement, I had my information wrong.
 
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Tree Logic, I have no experience with Safety Blue, but have used True blue for a while. TB does have some stretch, the rope kind of "squares" up, but not as much as our other Arborplex rigging lines (my father bought two spools cheap). Did you rig with SB as well or just climb on it? The load difference between even light rigging and climbing are pretty substantial. TB is a solid braid as well, isn't SB something different?

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SB is a single braid and i believe TB is too. I've climbed on both and rigged with both. Still remember TB being stretchy and SB not. Who knows, I talk myself into stuff sometimes.
 
Okay forgetting strands for the moment.....can anyone explain how 2 ropes can both have 3% elongation at 10% load (@600lbs on both), yet 1 is called Static and 1 is not?

Is there something I am missing that makes a line "Static" or is it just manufacturers choice.

Thanks
Frank
 
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Is there something I am missing that makes a line "Static" or is it just manufacturers choice.

Thanks
Frank

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Yes! I compare it to sleeping bag temperature ratings. There is no standard shared between manufacturers. One company's 0ºf is another's 32ºf!

The Sherrill chart was created in house using a standard criteria. At the time it was done it was the pretty good. The problem I see is that it has not been updated in some time. (I do not know that for sure. I may be incorrect)
I find some inconsistencies in it as well.

The term static is an oft used and confusing one. It can mean lack of movement or lack of stretch
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As a general rule of thumb, for tree work I put "static" at less than 2% stretch at working load, 2-3% at working load as semi static and anything above 3% as a rubber band!

Again these are just my take on it from time in the field as a student of the rope! Use it as a starting point for you own formulation.

Frank, to answer your question or further muddy the waters
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Straight elongation figures are a bit misleading as a deciding factor for what rope to use. In rigging and climbing it is more of a factor of when the rope will stretch.

To put it another way, all rope will stretch under load to a predetermined amount controlled by materials and construction. At what weight that stretch will happen is another matter all together!

Hence, the different numbers and confusion.

This is why I like Kernmaster from Yale so much as an all around climbing line. Look at the elongation numbers and when the stretch happens, you will see!

To clear up some info in past posts:

True blue is a hollow braid(no core) polyester construction

Safety Blue is a 16 strand arborist line of a polyester blend. The core is not for load, just hand as stated above. It is called safety blue because if you see the core any where other than at either end, you have a safety problem!

Poison Ivy, Votex, tachyon etc are double braids, rope in rope construction where the cover and core share the load.

Tony
 
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