2023 Contract Climber Rates?

[climbhightree]

So you got a hand up from your former boss. Many hardworking intelligent people are not afforded such a luxury.

But you arent asking for a hand up...you are pushing for a handout with no extra work or involved risks.

I put in the time, energy and work ethic with my boss that he could see I was qualified to treat his customers fairly and correctly. He took a risk selling to me, and I took a risk buying it. Without hard work on my part, and a unwillingness to give up, it would have failed...whether I loaned through him or the bank or started with nothing like Reach.

 

[data farm 26]

As many people who built themselves up from the bottom there's an incredibly larger number with the same value, smaats, maybe even more smaats, work ethic and skill who it didn't/doesn't work out for. I've been up and down more than a few times and came from next to nothing myself but I've been around enough and seen enough to know I ain't no better than the next fella. I worked/work hard but I see my success more as circumstantial luck more than anything else.

 

[Boomslang]

I see my success more as circumstantial luck more than anything else.

That pretty much sums up life. Right place, right time, right people around you. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It doesn't make you more or less deserving than the next person. We're all one step from being a millionaire and one step from being dead. Walking that razor thin line. Just try not to shove anyone off the edge along the way.

 

[climbhightree]

As many people who built themselves up from the bottom there's an incredibly larger number with the same value, smaats, maybe even more smaats, work ethic and skill who it didn't/doesn't work out for. I've been up and down more than a few times and came from next to nothing myself but I've been around enough and seen enough to know I ain't no better than the next fella. I worked/work hard but I see my success more as circumstantial luck more than anything else.

I will agree luck has a part in it. Being in the right place at the right time. But that doesn't mean it is someone else's fault that you don't make it, nor what your generational past looked like. Or that if you didn't make it someone owes you money for absolutely nothing.

 

[Matias]

Do you know I came from something? Do you know my background? I've worked since I been in high school...started out at Mcdonalds. I paid my own way through 2 year college with the help of student loans (which I paid off myself as it should be). I bought my employer's tree business and paid him off over time (how i would have preferred to sell my own company actually).

There are tons of stories of people that came from nothing to be millionaries. They did that by hard work, never giving up and not by asking for a handout out. Some failed multiple times before actually succeeding. The past is exactly that, the past. What matters is the here and now and what you do with it. How much effort are you willing to put out to get beyond whatever limitation you feel you have...what sacrifices are you willing to give up for that. Life is a set of choices, you make a bad one it may effect you for your life...and it is no ones falt but your own. Start making good ones. Maybe you won't become hugely rich, but you will be better than the generation before. Then your kids can do the same, if they so desire. Plus, money doesnt make one happy. Ive traveled enough to see that.

Not everyone can be owners. Does everyone have the smarts to do it..it is not only just a money thing (or really a schooling thing either). How many new business fail?

Make no mistake, I have gotten farther than many of my ancestors on my own will, and I have made plenty without asking for any handouts, and I have no doubt that most guys who could even begin to engage in this work at a high level are capable of the same. I am not saying it's impossible, but I will say that I had to break some rules to make it happen in a reasonable time frame.

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who are have even more obstacles, but there's no need for everyone to be pitted against each other, and that life could be better for everyone with a bit more cooperation.

 

[Chief]

I will agree luck has a part in it. Being in the right place at the right time. But that doesn't mean it is someone else's fault that you don't make it, nor what your generational past looked like. Or that if you didn't make it someone owes you money for absolutely nothing.

I'd be real curious the ages of the guys pushing the poor me I need to make as much as the people taking all the risks. But curiosity is what got me to start this thread. So I'll just go ahead and assume at this point.

 

[data farm 26]

I don't think anyone's saying that. I personally don't feel like anyone owes me anything. I basically won the lottery being born a white man in my time and place. If anything I feel I owe it to those less fortunate to be humble and eat my steak with reverence.

 

[data farm 26]

Maybe I missed the comments but I don't recall anyone blaming other individuals for their lack of success? I read people talking about systemic and circumstances situations that hold certain people back but I don't think anyone thinks it's your fault @climbhightree could be missing something but I get the feeling were all friends here who would happily break bread despite of ideological differences.

 

[climbhightree]

Maybe I missed the comments but I don't recall anyone blaming other individuals for their lack of success? I read people talking about systemic and circumstances situations that hold certain people back but I don't think anyone thinks it's your fault @climbhightree could be missing something but I get the feeling were all friends here who would happily break bread despite of ideological differences.

Oh I can guarantee Rico won't share a beer (or any drink) with me...though I would have no problem sharing one with him.

I am not saying it is someone's specific fault, and I don't think anyone else has either. But some are saying it is the whites fault, the rich fault, etc ... and being like woe is me, help me out while I continue to make bad choices and don't take the step to better myself. Look at places like Haiti where millions upon millions of money and products have been pour into the country via the government and individuals (even directly to the poor there). Yet it is still one of the poorest countries in the world. A hand out doesnt work...and neither does a hand up unless the person is willing to change and make it work

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Getting this thread bogged down in a race debate is a mistake imo.

 

[data farm 26]

I mention my race because I feel it's given me an advantage in the time and place I was born in and am living in. I've had plenty of disadvantage too but it seems to me like it's made things a little easier for me, being white. Could be wrong, haven't tried it any other way!

 

[rico]

But you arent asking for a hand up...you are pushing for a handout with no extra work or involved risks.

I put in the time, energy and work ethic with my boss that he could see I was qualified to treat his customers fairly and correctly. He took a risk selling to me, and I took a risk buying it. Without hard work on my part, and a unwillingness to give up, it would have failed...whether I loaned through him or the bank or started with nothing like Reach.

Nice attempt at a deflect, but nobody is pushing for handouts here. Just a far more equitable system.

You on the other hand have admitted to receiving a hand up and admitted that someone was willing to take a risk on you, which as I said earlier are luxuries that most are never afforded. As such it might be a good idea to get off of your self-made, hard scrabble, bullshit soapbox.

You act as if you somehow had it rough because you worked at McDonalds when you were in high school. Fucking please. High school wasn't an option for me because I was working in a logging camp in Southeast Alaska before my 16th birthday.. While you were busy popping pimples, squezzing titties, and slinging burgers/fries I was doing my best to stay alive. Kinda puts your holier than thou nonsense in perspective, don't it? Despite my upbringing I consider myself to be very blessed, and with the help of an amazing wife, an abundance of good luck, some hard work, and being born a white man in America I have managed to live a very comfortable life. Sadly millions who have had it way harder than you or I could ever imagine will never find any peace or security because the system is rigged and the results are baked in.

 

[Vicente]

Nice attempt at a deflect, but nobody is pushing for handouts here. Just a far more equitable system.

You on the other hand have admitted to receiving a hand up and admitted that someone was willing to take a risk on you, which as I said earlier are luxuries that most are never afforded. As such it might be a good idea to get off of your self-made, hard scrabble, bullshit soapbox.

You act as if you somehow had it rough because you worked at McDonalds when you were in high school. Fucking please. High school wasn't an option for me because I was working in a logging camp in Southeast Alaska before my 16th birthday.. While you were busy popping pimples and slinging burgers/fries I was doing my best to stay alive. Kinda puts your holier than thou nonsense in perspective, don't it? Despite my upbringing I consider myself to be very blessed, and with the help of an amazing wife, an abundance of good luck, some hard work, and being born a white man in America I have managed to live a very comfortable life. Sadly millions who have had it way harder than you or I could ever imagine will never find any peace or security because the system is rigged and the results are baked in.

I worked in construction through a large part of high-school, you and I were both learning valuable trades so I'd hardly say working at McDonald's is somehow better.

 

[rico]

I worked in construction through a large part of high-school, you and I were both learning valuable trades so I'd hardly say working at McDonald's is somehow better.

The fact that he was still in school means it was part time, and I can't help but wonder how many folks are killed while working at McDonalds? Either way it sounds like a brutal upbringing. Maybe his memoirs could be made into an after school special?

 

[climbhightree]

Nice attempt at a deflect, but nobody is pushing for handouts here. Just a far more equitable system.

You on the other hand have admitted to receiving a hand up and admitted that someone was willing to take a risk on you, which as I said earlier are luxuries that most are never afforded. As such it might be a good idea to get off of your self-made, hard scrabble, bullshit soapbox.

You act as if you somehow had it rough because you worked at McDonalds when you were in high school. Fucking please. High school wasn't an option for me because I was working in a logging camp in Southeast Alaska before my 16th birthday.. While you were busy popping pimples, squezzing titties, and slinging burgers/fries I was doing my best to stay alive. Kinda puts your holier than thou nonsense in perspective, don't it? Despite my upbringing I consider myself to be very blessed, and with the help of an amazing wife, an abundance of good luck, some hard work, and being born a white man in America I have managed to live a very comfortable life. Sadly millions who have had it way harder than you or I could ever imagine will never find any peace or security because the system is rigged and the results are baked in.

Never said or claimed I had it rough. I fully recognize others have it WAY worse then me, and others have had it worse than you. I am just saying I worked for what I have...just like you have.I respect you for that. You got to where you are by your hard work and never giving up...that is awesome. Will you now give it all away to someone who hasn't showed those same attributes? Or even give half? A quarter?

 

[climbhightree]

The fact that he was still in school means it was part time, and I can't help but wonder how many folks are killed while working at McDonalds? Either way it sounds like a brutal upbringing?

Mcdonalds was a start, a first job and yes part time. It isn't meant to be a life time supporting job, unless you move up to be manager...owner...owning multiple one. Which happens fairly often.

I have only worked at 4 jobs in my 46 years. One of those my own company.

 

[data farm 26]

Will you now give it all away to someone who hasn't showed those same attributes? Or even give half? A quarter?

This is where I'm confused and there seems to have been some sort of miscommunication, who is advocating for that?

nobody is pushing for handouts here. Just a far more equitable system.

This is more what I'm reading in the thread.

Sadly millions who have had it way harder than you or I could ever imagine will never find any peace or security because the system is rigged and the results are baked in.

More like billions, half the 6 billion people in the world still living off of less than 10 USD per day.

 

[Boomslang]

 

[rico]

Never said or claimed I had it rough. I fully recognize others have it WAY worse then me, and others have had it worse than you. I am just saying I worked for what I have...just like you have.I respect you for that. You got to where you are by your hard work and never giving up...that is awesome. Will you now give it all away to someone who hasn't showed those same attributes? Or even give half? A quarter?

You and I are both living proof that it takes more than hard work to become secure in this version of America.. You received help in your pursuit of the American dream, so you of all people should understand this.

Give it all away? WTF are you talking about?

 

[climbhightree]

This is where I'm confused and there seems to have been some sort of miscommunication, who is advocating for that?

This is more what I'm reading in the thread.


More like billions, half the 6 billion people in the world still living off of less than 10 USD per day.

So to try to keep this somewhat on topic and not to far down another rabbit trail. How do you suggest to make it fair and equitable, without taking more profit from those who put in the most risk, time, and costs...especially at the business start up time?

Because by doing that (taking the excess profit that is determine by someone else) and giving it to others that have not put in that risk, time, and costs that is what you are doing...giving up it all to another (or a half, quarter, etc)