Fu*%face Von Clownstick

Concerning voting being mandatory, if it were, for some, it may become rote, and some may without thinking, vote for the candidate that is not as good for the country/world. It's better to not vote, than to vote for the less better candidate.

What absolutely should be FEDERAL LAW: Voting Day should be a mandatory no required work day from your employer.
If don't show up for work, that day, you legally cannot be fired, reprimanded, or even scolded, and obviously not written up.

One can logically 'complain' [many call criticism complaining, not true if it's honest criticism] about a president, even if they didn't vote.
It is our duty to appropriately offer honest criticism, and we as honest people should welcome even all/any criticism, for we should be insightful and self reflective, to make use of all criticisms.
 
Concerning voting being mandatory, if it were, for some, it may become rote, and some may without thinking, vote for the candidate that is not as good for the country/world. It's better to not vote, than to vote for the less better candidate.

What absolutely should be FEDERAL LAW: Voting Day should be a mandatory no required work day from your employer.
If don't show up for work, that day, you legally cannot be fired, reprimanded, or even scolded, and obviously not written up.

One can logically 'complain' [many call criticism complaining, not true if it's honest criticism] about a president, even if they didn't vote.
It is our duty to appropriately offer honest criticism, and we as honest people should welcome even all/any criticism, for we should be insightful and self reflective, to make use of all criticisms.
I agree with you on several points. I like the idea that you can go to work on voting day if you want, especially since the polls are open prior to that one day, but the idea of it being a day to take off without reprecussion I like better than mandatory day off.

I also agree that intelligent criticism is different than complaining, but my beef is with the whiners who offer no valid criticism beyond "XYZ sucks/is an idiot/etc." or many other lame ass complaints about things that can be affected by voting on the issues and getting involved with the process.

Your case against mandatory voting is about as weak as they come though. Entirely hypothetical, and absolutely not a given. Even the potential for harm is fallacious, as it is no different than not voting if there really is a better and worse candidate, and it has been well discussed how not voting is as bad as voting for the "worse candidate". Both candidates had ple ty of bad things one could accurately say about them in this last round, but as I said, there is no singular solution. We need all the aforementioned changes to get even close to a "good system", and I surely haven't thought of everything.
Ranked Choice, PLUS Fractional Representation, PLUS Mandatory Voting, PLUS Real Time Voting, AND the abolition of the electoral college.
 
I agree with you on several points. I like the idea that you can go to work on voting day if you want, especially since the polls are open prior to that one day, but the idea of it being a day to take off without reprecussion I like better than mandatory day off.

I also agree that intelligent criticism is different than complaining, but my beef is with the whiners who offer no valid criticism beyond "XYZ sucks/is an idiot/etc." or many other lame ass complaints about things that can be affected by voting on the issues and getting involved with the process.

Your case against mandatory voting is about as weak as they come though. Entirely hypothetical, and absolutely not a given. Even the potential for harm is fallacious, as it is no different than not voting if there really is a better and worse candidate, and it has been well discussed how not voting is as bad as voting for the "worse candidate". Both candidates had ple ty of bad things one could accurately say about them in this last round, but as I said, there is no singular solution. We need all the aforementioned changes to get even close to a "good system", and I surely haven't thought of everything.
Ranked Choice, PLUS Fractional Representation, PLUS Mandatory Voting, PLUS Real Time Voting, AND the abolition of the electoral college.
I’m not down with mandated voting. If I choose not to do I go to detention? How about incentivizing voting?
A tax credit? Sumthin fairly nominal like $200-500?
Obviously this would be fair, but objected to by the wealthy? One can think of it as a tax on those who don’t vote being passed to those who do!
 
I’m not down with mandated voting. If I choose not to do I go to detention? How about incentivizing voting?
A tax credit? Sumthin fairly nominal like $200-500?
Obviously this would be fair, but objected to by the wealthy? One can think of it as a tax on those who don’t vote being passed to those who do!
See guys, this is an idea in the right direction! Would that work to increase people's refund if eligble? That notion alone would drive every low income person to the polls! Next time, I may swing from Oceans to Evo!!
 
If you want to live in a democracy you should be participating in the democratic process.

Australia does it right. They make it easy and enjoyable, while the penalty isn't a financial burden of you don't turn out.
 
If you want to live in a democracy you should be participating in the democratic process.

Australia does it right. They make it easy and enjoyable, while the penalty isn't a financial burden of you don't turn out.
My participation alone isn't gonna make it a democracy. What does Australia do that makes it enjoyable? that sounds cool.

I also agree that it shouldn't be a financial punishment if you don't participate. I don't remember anything about that in the discussion thusfar.
 
My participation alone isn't gonna make it a democracy. What does Australia do that makes it enjoyable? that sounds cool.

I also agree that it shouldn't be a financial punishment if you don't participate. I don't remember anything about that in the discussion thusfar.
 
I just noticed something! Recall how Trump & Friends constantly made a big deal out of Biden's age and approaching senility? Well, surprise, Trump is actually now himself the oldest person to ever be elected president. That's right, he is older than Biden was when Biden was elected. And he is already showing signs of cognitive decline, rambling, making mistakes in speeches. So, cool, we get to watch this get worse for four years as constant media attention, scrutiny, and pressure is focused on him as president. At least we have this small thing to look forward to, embarrassing as this will be in front of the World, and amid the perhaps irreversible damage he may do to the environment, the economy, womens' reproductive rights, our health care and insurance infrastructure, etc.
 
My participation alone isn't gonna make it a democracy.
By definitely, that's actually exactly what it does.

I find many Americans have an individualistic or selfish view of the world. It's about what benefits me rather than what benefits the most. I think it's a cultural thing.
 
See guys, this is an idea in the right direction! Would that work to increase people's refund if eligble? That notion alone would drive every low income person to the polls! Next time, I may swing from Oceans to Ev
Just a reflection and massive spin off the illegal nature of incentivized voting. If its the feds that spread incentive universally it would be clean.
 
So, they do in fact have mandatory voting in Australia, and have for 100 years now. I would encourage all to read that article from Harvard. It paints a pretty sweet sounding picture with sausages and stuff.
By definitely, that's actually exactly what it does.

I find many Americans have an individualistic or selfish view of the world. It's about what benefits me rather than what benefits the most. I think it's a cultural thing.
I agree that more Americans than not have a selfish view of the world. Can I ask you to expound on how my one vote makes the whole of democracy function, because it still feels to me like without everyone's participation, it is not a fully democratic process. I get the impression that ypu have some good ideas, but I am not seeing the big picture yet. Thank you in advance.
 
I agree that more Americans than not have a selfish view of the world. Can I ask you to expound on how my one vote makes the whole of democracy function, because it still feels to me like without everyone's participation, it is not a fully democratic process. I get the impression that ypu have some good ideas, but I am not seeing the big picture yet. Thank you in advance.
Your vote makes democracy function in exactly the same way the other 140 million votes do. It's about participation. That's the only way a democracy can function. Ideally, you'd want 100% turnout, but 64.6% participation is closer to it than 64.5%.

You can't rate the value of your vote by whether your choice wins or loses.

One thing Australia does that would be easy and meaningful to implement over here is the "none of the above" option on a ballot. That's you telling the political parties to do better and would probably shake things up because a large chunk of voters are independent, they're flexible in who they vote for. Could you imagine if 20 or 30 million people chose "none" on Tuesday instead of feeling like they had to pick between the lesser of two evils or voting for the opposition because they're unhappy with the current regime.
 
Your vote makes democracy function in exactly the same way the other 140 million votes do. It's about participation. That's the only way a democracy can function. Ideally, you'd want 100% turnout, but 64.6% participation is closer to it than 64.5%.

You can't rate the value of your vote by whether your choice wins or loses.

One thing Australia does that would be easy and meaningful to implement over here is the "none of the above" option on a ballot. That's you telling the political parties to do better and would probably shake things up because a large chunk of voters are independent, they're flexible in who they vote for. Could you imagine if 20 or 30 million people chose "none" on Tuesday instead of feeling like they had to pick between the lesser of two evils or voting for the opposition because they're unhappy with the current regime.
That was what I thought you were getting at, but it was just vague enough that I didn't want to assume. Thanks again. agreed on all points.
 
What is the punishment?
Parking ticket amount fine. $20-$200 depending on the situation. You want it to be enough to annoy people and maybe nudge them to vote, but not so much that it has significant negative impacts on individuals.

And the fines could be used to provide sausages and bouncy castles at the polling stations.
 
so,

it sounds like you don't care if this election was also stolen, because your guy won? you don't actually care if it was fair? wouldn't ypu want all the media from both sides to expose any and all malfeasance?

WTF are you talking about? Every post I've made here has reinforced my desire for fair elections and open/truthful media. My last post literally said if there is any shenanigans it would be exposed.

The question I have for you is how in the actual fuck you could ask this goofy question after what I've consistently written here? Have you actuality read what I wrote? Are you a BOT? Are you perhaps so upset that perhaps you believe this election was rigged, and that belief somehow clouds your reading comprehension?

If you are noting that I only mentioned liberal media sighting shenanigans, my point is that they were utterly uncurius about what is now documented as massive voting irregularities in the 2020 election. I'm guessing conservative media will be honest about this one, as we've seen them expose false conservative claims by Trump and others time and time again over the last 4 years.

And whether I favor liberal media or conservative media exposing voter fraud, I still clearly support exposing it. Which demonstrates that I explicitly care about THIS election being fair.

Do you think this election was rigged? I'm open to listen honestly. Please give me the same courtesy.
 
Last edited:
My gf wrote this...
I'm fine. Yesterday was a day of mourning. I came to the realization that Trump is not a con artist. Americans on the whole are misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, care little about the environment ... and have no interest in truth.
THE END

I replied...

Your summary of why she got beaten so badly may help you sleep at night, but it a perfect demostration of how devoid of reality your (plural) thinking has been... Those who don't learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat them. Those in denial don't learn from their mistakes. Both Biden and his presidency were a disaster. If not for the supreme court overturning Roe, the democrats would have gotten slaughtered in the midterms. Blaming the American people for this loss, rather than the failed policies of the democrats (don't make me list them again) is living in denial. Seeing how far from reality your thinking is here begs the question, "where else are you living in denial?"


Here's a lefty that's making a litle more sense

A Party of Prigs and Pontificators Suffers a Humiliating Defeat

By Bret Stephens

Opinion Columnist

Nov. 6, 2024


A story in chess lore involves the great Danish-Jewish player Aron Nimzowitsch, who, at a tournament in the mid-1920s, found himself struggling against the German master Friedrich Sämisch. Infuriated at the thought of losing to an opponent he considered inferior, Nimzowitsch jumped on the table and shouted, “To this idiot I must lose?”

It’s a thought that must have crossed the minds of more than a few liberal pundits and Democratic eminences late Tuesday night, as Kamala Harris’s hopes for winning the presidency began suddenly to fade.

How, indeed, did Democrats lose so badly, considering how they saw Donald Trump — a twice-impeached former president, a felon, a fascist, a bigot, a buffoon, a demented old man, an object of nonstop late-night mockery and incessant moral condemnation? The theory that many Democrats will be tempted to adopt is that a nation prone to racism, sexism, xenophobia and rank stupidity fell prey to the type of demagoguery that once beguiled Germany into electing Adolf Hitler.

It’s a theory that has a lot of explanatory power — though only of an unwitting sort. The broad inability of liberals to understand Trump’s political appeal except in terms flattering to their beliefs is itself part of the explanation for his historic, and entirely avoidable, comeback.

Why did Harris lose? There were many tactical missteps: her choice of a progressive running mate who would not help deliver a must-win state like Pennsylvania or Michigan; her inability to separate herself from President Biden; her foolish designation of Trump as a fascist, which, by implication, suggested his supporters were themselves quasi-fascist; her overreliance on celebrity surrogates as she struggled to articulate a compelling rationale for her candidacy; her failure to forthrightly repudiate some of the more radical positions she took as a candidate in 2019, other than by relying on stock expressions like “My values haven’t changed.”


There was also the larger error of anointing Harris without political competition — an insult to the democratic process that handed the nomination to a candidate who, as some of us warned at the time, was exceptionally weak. That, in turn, came about because Democrats failed to take Biden’s obvious mental decline seriously until June’s debate debacle (and then allowed him to cling to the nomination for a few weeks more), making it difficult to hold even a truncated mini-primary.

But these mistakes of calculation lived within three larger mistakes of worldview. First, the conviction among many liberals that things were pretty much fine, if not downright great, in Biden’s America — and that anyone who didn’t think that way was either a right-wing misinformer or a dupe. Second, the refusal to see how profoundly distasteful so much of modern liberalism has become to so much of America. Third, the insistence that the only appropriate form of politics when it comes to Trump is the politics of Resistance — capital R.

Regarding the first, I’ve lost track of the number of times liberal pundits have attempted to steer readers to arcane data from the St. Louis Federal Reserve to explain why Americans should stop freaking out over sharply higher prices of consumer goods or the rising financing costs on their homes and cars. Or insisted there was no migration crisis at the southern border. Or averred that Biden was sharp as a tack and that anyone who suggested otherwise was a jerk.

Yet when Americans saw and experienced things otherwise (as extensive survey data showed they did) the characteristic liberal response was to treat the complaints not only as baseless but also as immoral. The effect was to insult voters while leaving Democrats blind to the legitimacy of the issues. You could see this every time Harris mentioned, in answer to questions about the border, that she had prosecuted transnational criminal gangs: Her answer was nonresponsive to the central complaint that there was a migration crisis straining hundreds of communities, irrespective of whether the migrants committed crimes.

The dismissiveness with which liberals treated these concerns was part of something else: dismissiveness toward the moral objections many Americans have to various progressive causes. Concerned about gender transitions for children or about biological males playing on girls’ sports teams? You’re a transphobe. Dismayed by tedious, mandatory and frequently counterproductive D.E.I. seminars that treat white skin as almost inherently problematic? You’re racist. Irritated by new terminology that is supposed to be more inclusive but feels as if it’s borrowing a page from “1984”? That’s doubleplusungood.




The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency.

Last, liberals thought that the best way to stop Trump was to treat him not as a normal, if obnoxious, political figure with bad policy ideas but as a mortal threat to democracy itself. Whether or not he is such a threat, this style of opposition led Democrats astray. It goaded them into their own form of antidemocratic politics — using the courts to try to get Trump’s name struck from the ballot in Colorado or trying to put him in prison on hard-to-follow charges. It distracted them from the task of developing and articulating superior policy responses to the valid public concerns he was addressing. And it made liberals seem hyperbolic, if not hysterical, particularly since the country had already survived one Trump presidency more or less intact.

Today, the Democrats have become the party of priggishness, pontification and pomposity. It may make them feel righteous, but how’s that ever going to be a winning electoral look?

I voted reluctantly for Harris because of my fears for what a second Trump term might bring — in Ukraine, our trade policy, civic life, the moral health of the conservative movement writ large. Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change.
 
What is the punishment?
I was thinking that community service would be better than an actual cash punishment. I think it should be enough hours to really compel people from any income bracket to actually go and fulfill their civic duty, but if you really don't want to vote for whatever reason, you should get out their and do some work for your community and contribute in some way you feel is meaningful. And I do think it should be a significant burden, because voting isn't, and by not voting, you make the process inherently less democratic. I suggested earlier maybe 2000 hours of servivce, with 4 years to complete it. You should still have the write in option too, so you can even cast a protest vote for literally anybody. and reasonable accomodations should be made, like they do in Australia, which does have mandatory voting.
 

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