alternating between SRT and DdRT

islandarb said:
NAh, I can use one sling a lot. Mostly vertical wood. Prefer pieces to be in the 2000 to 5000 range. This came off smooth as I recall. Only the butt gave trouble and that was because the 150T was maxed out. It was around 25000 lbs...9' DBH 25ft tall easy.....went out on another knuckleboom. View attachment 86187
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That’s just cuckoo bananas wood right there!

I never liked slinging with one. You just like it cause it’s faster? I was taught it was an OSHA standard to always use two or more, but I never found it in any standards. But it’s definitely what I have told newer climbers to do.
 
Stumpsprouts said:
That’s just cuckoo bananas wood right there!

I never liked slinging with one. You just like it cause it’s faster? I was taught it was an OSHA standard to always use two or more, but I never found it in any standards. But it’s definitely what I have told newer climbers to do.
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Wood picks one is faster, but you have to sling it right. Otherwise it will twist of worse flip...two slings will remove the guesswork for sure and the pick comes off smooth as silk most times. Brush picks need 3 most times. Especially long horizontal ones....
 
Friedrich said:
can you please elaborate on both points? im interested what you mean.
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I described removing the pinto pulley from a pulley saver and replacing it with a single rigging ring.

A Zigzag and pulley may be a perfect setup for you. It's not for me and at this point in my career I know what's good for my body and what will cause me grief. A very tiny amount of friction on the dynamic part of the movement is a small price to pay.
 
Bored, cabin fevered in the frickin cold -22 deg! so I extracted this corollary from the base tie thread:

Corollary: why does DdRT ascent suck so bad?

Well, it's the same situation. 100 lb guy, ignoring the acceleration force bump for the moment, pulls 71 lbs on the arms side while the saddle side has 29 lbs. Wait, where'd the proverbial 2:1 advantage go? But there's more. Doing some start/stops on the test rig with my 118 lb son, he had 10 or 20 lbs acceleration force, be it starting or stopping (no hard slam stops - those can be 100 lb spike if you lock suddenly and hard enough). So call it 15 lbs for our 100 lb guy. Divided 2.5:1 in the line halves, 4 lbs goes into the bridge side and 11 more lbs goes into the arms side of the rope. 71 lbs + 11 lbs = 82 lbs arm effort for a 100 lb guy on a supposed 2:1 system!

Bit smoother bark may get you 2:1 tension ratio instead of 2.5 to 1 rough locust bark. Still heavily not in your favour.


edit - the friction over a ring still sucks pretty bad too. data: W40 0.471 dia big steel biner 1/2 wrap tension ratio 1.86 mu 0.197, so re-work the numbers using approx tension ratio 1.9

Reply
 
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Bart_ said:
Bored, cabin fevered in the frickin cold -22 deg! so I extracted this corollary from the base tie thread:

Corollary: why does DdRT ascent suck so bad?

Well, it's the same situation. 100 lb guy, ignoring the acceleration force bump for the moment, pulls 71 lbs on the arms side while the saddle side has 29 lbs. Wait, where'd the proverbial 2:1 advantage go? But there's more. Doing some start/stops on the test rig with my 118 lb son, he had 10 or 20 lbs acceleration force, be it starting or stopping (no hard slam stops - those can be 100 lb spike if you lock suddenly and hard enough). So call it 15 lbs for our 100 lb guy. Divided 2.5:1 in the line halves, 4 lbs goes into the bridge side and 11 more lbs goes into the arms side of the rope. 71 lbs + 11 lbs = 82 lbs arm effort for a 100 lb guy on a supposed 2:1 system!

Bit smoother bark may get you 2:1 tension ratio instead of 2.5 to 1 rough locust bark. Still heavily not in your favour.


edit - the friction over a ring still sucks pretty bad too. data: W40 0.471 dia big steel biner 1/2 wrap tension ratio 1.86 mu 0.197, so re-work the numbers using approx tension ratio 1.9

Reply
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Oh it sucks so bad....
 
I can't agree more. My OG Gecko aluminums are a love hate. They've lasted amazingly well, but if I wear the wrong boots they're hell.
islandarb said:
I think these stirrups seem a tad straight, I prefer them with more bend. Gives more comfort, you would understand this way more than I.....am I correct. Spurs are not my strong suit. I just get on with it. The straight geckos were painful.....these KKs and OGs were so comfy.
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islandarb said:
This is so well said. At 55, I do not want to see DdRT.... I have mastered SRT in my humble opinion and I truly feel that after long climbs I have not really used much energy. Being honest here. In use my tools....This is my opinion only and not written in stone....this debate is like the one handing a chainsaw debate it just goes on and on.....Many never master SRT and just revert back.... Some are just really great at both and use the method they feel best suits the situation. Some are just young and very strong and fit.... different animal there....the older we get it becomes a fight for energy conservation and maintaining our fitness and muscle mass which is no easy feat....just my 2 cents....I really believe SRT saves so much energy in nearly all my days climbing....
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I'm in the same boat. I'm not old, but my spine is all busted up (took a spill on a contract working the shipyards as a mechanic). SRS is the only way I can reliably get work done due to energy conservation. There's times MRS makes sense, but by and large SRS is the go to so I can do it for any length of time.
 
I am a mixed technique climber still, using SRT about 80% of the time now, though more and more with practice, and I seldom use MRT requiring more than 50'-70' of rope- just tie one end off somewhere and SRT the last bit of walk out and retrieve the eye on return.

That said, does anyone climb the tree itself much? I climb the tree and then pull out slack after each major move all the time. Sometimes I'll just climb a short section of trunk to another union to bypass a shitty throwing spot and get to a better one for a better angle to get my line up/out as far as I want it.
 
Matias said:
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That said, does anyone climb the tree itself much? I climb the tree and then pull out slack after each major move all the time...
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One of the things I like best about SRT is the ability to climb the tree. However, in order to do that to the best advantage and safety, a self-tending ascender is needed. All the ones I use will do that, sometimes needing a small amount of tail weight added. So fun to climb up while having the slack fall through your climbing device.
 
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DSMc said:
One of the things I like best about SRT is the ability to climb the tree. However, in order to do that to the best advantage and safety, a self-tending ascender is needed. All the ones I use will do that, sometimes needing a small amount of tail weight added. So fun to climb up while having the slack fall through your climbing device.
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It definitely is way better on SRT. I hadn't considered adding weight to the tail in a temporary way, but the idea has been presented, and I will be experimenting.
 
I pull the bag up to me and clip it to my belt. It's great for throwing ropes in the canopy and helps with flicking them back down. I take off the throwline loop and use it for joining climbing line to tag line, like if I want to take the last top and it needs a pull, I can just replace my climb line with a tag and send it
 
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