Zoo Arborist dies in AR training

I think this is the scenario that trainers feared all along.

Bowline as a termination knot was a taboo subject for many years even though it has its advocates because bowline was so easy to tie. The tag line ‘safe if used with Yosemite tie off’ was always spoken with wariness, and I am sure it was feared it would be skipped by someone and an accident would result - as it looks like happened in this case...

The knot that worries me is the Anchor knot. I have seen that nearly fail many times due to the poor ‘-dress-set’ part of the tying procedure.

It seems to have its advocates probably due to maritime use by those practitioners. I have used it for the sake of trying it - but it makes me uneasy so much it slows me down and increases stress of the climb so I don’t bother using it.

But I have seen it used on YouTube vídeos which adds to its risk.
 
Before crowning one knot or the other as good or bad remember Clifford Ashley's words:

A knot is either tied right or hopelessly wrong.

Too many knots have gotten bad reps because of user error. TDS is a complete sentence.

A knot might work well in a really supple rope but not a rope with even the smallest bit of stiff in it.

Climbers choosing the wrong knot for a particular application cause more blame to be heaped on the knot/hitch.
 
I used to use the anchor knot. I liked it and never had any trouble out of it. I mainly use spliced eyes now so I really have no need to use it in everyday use. What would you recommend for termination in a ddrt setup? Double fishermans? I've used it too.
 
To piggy back off Tom's post,
I agree with him and think guys who are a little lazy or whatever with their knot tying should use more supple rope's with high knotability and tie stoppers and or Yosemite finish.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Before crowning one knot or the other as good or bad remember Clifford Ashley's words:

A knot is either tied right or hopelessly wrong.

Too many knots have gotten bad reps because of user error. TDS is a complete sentence.

A knot might work well in a really supple rope but not a rope with even the smallest bit of stiff in it.

Climbers choosing the wrong knot for a particular application cause more blame to be heaped on the knot/hitch.
Click to expand...

Agree with you, and my post is still my opinion for the one reason being my most observed termination near failure of any of the options I have witnessed being used so far.

Completely agree that any appropriate knot in appropriate cord Tied-Dressed-Set correctly will be safe.
 
Chaplain242 said:
I think this is the scenario that trainers feared all along.

Bowline as a termination knot was a taboo subject for many years even though it has its advocates because bowline was so easy to tie. The tag line ‘safe if used with Yosemite tie off’ was always spoken with wariness, and I am sure it was feared it would be skipped by someone and an accident would result - as it looks like happened in this case...

The knot that worries me is the Anchor knot. I have seen that nearly fail many times due to the poor ‘-dress-set’ part of the tying procedure.

It seems to have its advocates probably due to maritime use by those practitioners. I have used it for the sake of trying it - but it makes me uneasy so much it slows me down and increases stress of the climb so I don’t bother using it.

But I have seen it used on YouTube vídeos which adds to its risk.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard others say the same about the anchor. Personally, it’s my favorite termination in ddrt. The “set” is where I think most become uneasy. The last person I heard swear against it claimed that it unrolled on him. Every time I tie it, I leave 6 or so inches of tail, and put my weight into it, watching it as it coils and sets. Then I’m ready to climb.

I wish trainings really hammered the point Tom addressed. Every field arborist should have it echoing in their heads while working, as much as we have flashbacks to gruesome pictures, videos, and stories of incidents shared at training sessions.
 
Crimsonking said:
I’ve heard others say the same about the anchor. Personally, it’s my favorite termination in ddrt. The “set” is where I think most become uneasy. The last person I heard swear against it claimed that it unrolled on him. Every time I tie it, I leave 6 or so inches of tail, and put my weight into it, watching it as it coils and sets. Then I’m ready to climb.

I wish trainings really hammered the point Tom addressed. Every field arborist should have it echoing in their heads while working, as much as we have flashbacks to gruesome pictures, videos, and stories of incidents shared at training sessions.
Click to expand...

My sentiments align. And those incidents I have seen with anchor missed the proper ‘set’ step too.
 
TimBr said:
@Chaplain242; If you do not mind my asking, what is your preferred termination knot, the one you most readily trust with your life? Thanks in advance for any answer you choose to provide.

Tim
Click to expand...

Depends on how much I am changing TIPs and whether hitch climb or mechanical, or how busy my bridge is as I try to keep tail out of the way. Also depends on what doing as if I will be heavily focussed on something I will choose a knot that doesn’t need inspecting so much even if congested with other gear, or load on/off cycles.

Low profile or want to grip carabiner use scaffold hitch,
Don’t want tail up use double bowline,
Failsafe use fig eight,
Lots change tips and tail up use Yosemite bowline as it unties faster than heavily loaded fig eight...
 
Crimsonking said:
Edit on details-

The “stopper” was clarified as using a bowline at the termination end of a doubled rope system without a lockoff or backup. This training was semiannual, and he was “racing” for the best time.

It seems that there were three major factors- not wearing ppe properly, improper termination knot, and distraction. Eliminate any one of these, and there could have been, at worst, a chance he would have survived a bad fall.

Someone commented on the situation with a good takeaway- what we don’t point out to someone becomes allowed. There may not be an incident that day, but habits formed from uncorrected actions increase the odds of an incident occurring.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of an experienced rec climber falling in Costa Rica, in that accident the climber survived and is completely recovered. As I recall the climber was switching over from one system to another and were using a Bowline backed with a Yosemite tie-off. The cause of the accident was that they clipped into a "part" of the Yosemite tie-off instead of the bight of the Bowline. When they loaded the system the Yosemite pulled out and they dropped. I think some climbers on the Buzz were there when it happened. It makes me wonder if something like that happened in the NC Zoo rescue practice accident.
-AJ
 
Chaplain242 said:
I have heard of plenty of accidents and deaths (some local) whereby climbers have clipped in without a visual check. I learned early to always visually check before relying on a connection.
Click to expand...

Yep. The other one is when you do a switchover from one system to another in a tree to always verify that the "new" system is functioning and holding you before you disconnect from the previous system. An easy step that will not slow you down more than a second or two and will take away a variety of "opportunities" to fall.
-AJ
 
Look, Listen, and Feel.

New system has to hold ~100% body weight before unclipping the first system that has been likewise tested when installed.



Racing is silly.
Watched my someone I know fiddle with shiny stuff on the ground, like it was new. Then, almost start to fall from 60' racing at a TCC with a system change-over, right in front of me, as the in-tree tech. A slipknot is not a fixed-eye!

Nothing matters except what is. What you thought, doesn't matter. What you intended, doesn't matter. What you hoped, doesn't matter. What you did/ didn't DO, MATTERS!
 
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