X-rigging rings

Treetopflyer said:
Xrings are sheave less blocks, its all about the sling strength , you can't beat xrings hardiness or strength to weight ratio ! Can't beat them ...cannot ...you fuckin cannot . Real world user right here speaking from xperience with the product . ..I'm not talking tree pieces ..they hold up to whole trees if the sling is rated the ring is nooo problem ..TRUTH!
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ha ha that's funny. I worked on finding that chart and wrote all that and posted it; then saw you summed it up very well.
 
I'll explain my experiences with SOME rock climbers/ rescue people from my past. RescueMan can't help it. If he hasn’t changed by this age, he will never change.
In his mind he is saving the world by picking at things by using published facts and mathematics.
These things are important, but often times there is a lot more going on.
He even tried to use my own words of caution on the XRRs as faults/ weaknesses.
It would be great if his library of mathematical knowledge was open to working with other ideas.
I think he means well. And if that is true, I like the guy.
 
The written form of our language doesn't always convey intent very well, used conversationally. People read malice and arrogance into statements meant to convey information that the author feels is relevant and important. When it starts degenerating into a mess, a change of topic might derail the ugliness.

So, who like big boobs?
 
Stihlmadd said:
So with less than two years experience in actual arborist climbing and No actual use of the product you feel that because you are eloquent with the english language and have a extensive grasp of mathematics/physics and engineering this entails you to come lord it up over me?

HOW BOUT PLAIN SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT AT YOUR LEVEL or is that not a simple enough statement?
if you truly do know your stuff then demonstrate that base by being able to translate what you said on the opposite page.

"Wadda I call your experience with your X-rings? Sloppy and careless."
If you haven't been riding the wooden pony what gave you the gumption to lecture me about the subject?

Stop running around and hiding behind your own skill in verbosity and answer the bloody question put to you this is not a private conservation in case you had not noticed captain obvious.
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good post tree working-non-eloquent-man.
 
This thread has really gotten interesting. Ironically I was devising a research project that I wish I had the time to do that kind of follows alongs these lines.
I'd love to figure out how those numbers that theoretical physics gives us stack up in a real world scenario. RescueMan seems to think we're careless and sloppy, but the reality is that tree work is careless and sloppy. Lots of energy being dissipated throughout a system. I'd like to find out just how much.
And the anecdote about a single grain of sand in a Gri Gri cutting a rope, I call bullshit. I exclusively ran a Gri Gri on walls in Zion for years and you have sand absolutely everywhere after 1 damn pitch. Don't oversimplify the cause of an accident to attempt to prove a point, it doesn't benefit anyone.
 
I guess what I meant was that in terms of physics tree work is careless and sloppy. There are so many variables that change constantly and many can't be known. Tell me what the tensile strength is of your TIP was today, you can't know without pull testing it. Every one will be different. Our work is one of estimations.
 
And I found the GriGri fatality. Complete freak accident and the actual cause is unknown. The best guess is that something, possibly sand or a rock was in the dam when it was loaded. Don't know how that was relevant to this discussion.
 
PC280029.webp
the wear pattern on this ally is super smooth even the apparent lip has no sharp edges anywhere it is like it has been machined.
It mimics wear patterns we see in nature all around us, friction from movement under load combing with the rough texture of fibres ate this aircraft grade ally like soft sandstone exposed to salt spray, the first thing to go was the soft anodised coat,
you could watch it streak along the rigging line as a dirty grey smear.
At no point did any of the ropes used through it show any signs of "cutting" regardless of the construction type or diameter.
 
wyoclimber said:
I guess what I meant was that in terms of physics tree work is careless and sloppy. There are so many variables that change constantly and many can't be known. Tell me what the tensile strength is of your TIP was today, you can't know without pull testing it. Every one will be different. Our work is one of estimations.
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Educated estimates..sure I'll agree with that . Tis why it can be dangerous to the wrong frame of mind...
 
Stihlmadd said:
View attachment 30044
the wear pattern on this ally is super smooth even the apparent lip has no sharp edges anywhere it is like it has been machined.
It mimics wear patterns we see in nature all around us, friction from movement under load combing with the rough texture of fibres ate this aircraft grade ally like soft sandstone exposed to salt spray, the first thing to go was the soft anodised coat,
you could watch it streak along the rigging line as a dirty grey smear.
At no point did any of the ropes used through it show any signs of "cutting" regardless of the construction type or diameter.
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Stihlmadd, If you just glance at that picture it looks like you have a stub for a thumb and a really thin wrist.
 
TreeLogic said:
I encourage you guys to look at the posts rescueman has written on treebuzz. I cant remember one that isn't combative. The first one I saw was with kstreehuggerco.

He's kinda like a treevet but with zero happy moments. Ha! I'm kidding treevet. :)

I don't know about the math involved but one thing Rescueman is pro at....getting attention!
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I think some people have that warrior soul and can contain it and some have a warrior soul and can't. Since being a real warrior isn't much of an option these days for guys like this . Were left the pen equation to the sword. Or Now in 2015 the keyboard lol
 
baumeister said:
I think vulnerabilities is not the right word to place on your quote. You bring up a potential vulnerability I will address at the end. X rings have their limitation just like any other product and intelligent use is important. Rescue, you wouldn't hang a victim from a piece of hardware not designed for it. Those are instructions on proper use, care, inspection and definitions for retirement. Anything you use has these guidelines or "vulnerabilities".

That said, the potential for the coating to cut the rope is certainly a potential problem. This could be of concern. Have you had any experience with this. ? Is there record of this elsewhere?
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Any product put out with out such warnings would be unprofessional and negligible. Any block, sling, rope, etc. all come with such warnings and should be read and followed.
Or does no one know that nicked, glazed, etc ropes should be retired or cut shorter to remove the defect.
 
RescueMan said:
Any rigging hardware also comes with a MBS and SWL, but the X-rings apparently have not been tested for load ratings.

The danger of hard anodizing is well known in the rigging community. Here is one warning in the user instructions for the Rock Exotica Figure 8 with Side Ears: "The 8’s are soft anodized. This makes it less likely to develop the sharp edges that can occur with hard anodizing."
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Xrrs have a an swl rating. X has repeatedly said that the swl/mbs depends on the sling you use and if you go with the safety factors of a sling that properly fill the entire groove the less deforming is likely. The rings always surpassed the slings so they were the weakest link. So if you had a ring swl you'd be breaking slings all over the place. Is how it was explained to me.
 
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