X-rigging rings

RescueMan said:
I'm sure X-rings have their place, but they seem to have a number of vulnerabilities.

From the Tree Stuff website:
  • X-Rigging Rings(XRR) are for rope rigging, NOT for climbing and life support use. The XRRs are very low friction, however, hard use and abuse could result in the ring becoming heated. Choose your sling material wisely in regards to what tasks the ring will be put through. Research your sling or rope material for degradation temperatures before choosing your cordage material.
  • Do not use a single XRR as a terminal rigging point. The bend ratio with a single XRR and most rigging rope sizes does not meet best management practices in rigging. Consider triple ring use for terminal rigging. Use arborist blocks for heavy weights, long runs and when less friction is needed.
  • XRR must be secured in a very tight professional splice. Do not splice if you are not qualified, slings can be purchased already complete with XRRs.
  • Inspect your XRR and splice before every use. If the splice is loose enough for the ring to possibly come out, do not use.
  • When an XRR is pushed to extremes, they will deform; the outside groove pinches inward and the XRR will become oval. Discontinue use if the XRR is ever deformed.
  • IF the black Hard Coat Anodize is ever worn away, discontinue ring use; as the friction will increase and heat will increase.
I'm not much of a fan of hard-coat anodizing, as when it wears away it can leave a micro-edge that can cut rope fibers. Overheating may also be a problem if ropes are allowed to run too fast.
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Those are XAS' words, not ours.
 
CutHighnLetFly said:
rescueman tell the Xman David that you dont think they have been load tested, see what he has to tell you.

of all the things i use, i have the most faith in my XRR. ive dropped them from aloft onto asphalt, amongst other ways of not taking care of them. i have no signs of wear, chips, edges, whatever. wadda you call that, "bombproof"?
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If they were load-rated, it would be printed on the X-rings and listed under specifications at any website that sold them. All it says is they can deform if "pushed to extremes" - which effectively tells us nothing.

I'm glad you have "faith" in your XRR. But a wise rigger relies on practical knowledge, not religion.

Wadda I call your experience with your X-rings? Sloppy and careless.
 
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TreeLogic said:
Do you even do any arboricultural work RescueMan?
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I've engaged in tree-climbing work as rarely as possible, but I've been felling and processing trees for 35 years.

I do have a climbing saddle, split tails, lanyards, gaffs, tailboard block, throw ropes, Big-Shot and a bunch more arborist equipment.
 
Boomslang said:
So you avoid tree-climbing by choice. Is there a particular reason?
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Because I didn't start tree-climbing until I was nearly 60 and I'm getting too old for it.

Because I don't have any health or disability insurance, and I limit my risks. (I've given up white-water kayaking, rock-climbing and caving as well.)

And because you've got to be more than a little crazy to be hanging on ropes with a running chain saw.

I respect those who do it well - and come home safely every evening.
 
Has wood compression been brought up in this? We all know that wood is strongest in the C axis... I have not had a lot of chances to use xrrs yet, a bit here and there, but in my mind it seems that with friction at the top you are loading the wood more on it's strongest axis. Like climbing SRT with a base anchor. After doing this primarily for awhile I now feel WAY less safe on a DdRT system where I am "side loading" the wood.
 
Here is a sling with a Beast ring and Large ring in one setup. Open sourced on TREEBUZZ!!!
20141214_093444-jpg.29073
 
RescueMan said:
I've engaged in tree-climbing work as rarely as possible, but I've been felling and processing trees for 35 years.

I do have a climbing saddle, split tails, lanyards, gaffs, tailboard block, throw ropes, Big-Shot and a bunch more arborist equipment.
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For someone that doesn't even practice our art, it sure sounds like you're here to teach rather than to learn. How is that, when you don't even understand the intricacies of the job?
 
I am working, I can't wait to contribute to this thread. The more rescue man talks the more he shows what he is. Some really rediculous stuff stated now. The rings are rated by the way I will give you the chart, but they don't need to be rated and the rating actually doesn't really make a difference it all comes to whatever cordage is placed in the ring because they are a freaking thimble.

I had no idea you also had a problem with the rings. Or maybe it's just because they are linked to me. Well, come to think of it you generally have a problem with everything with everybody like I said before
 
LeviRockett said:
Has wood compression been brought up in this? We all know that wood is strongest in the C axis... I have not had a lot of chances to use xrrs yet, a bit here and there, but in my mind it seems that with friction at the top you are loading the wood more on it's strongest axis.
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It was brought up in Mark Chisholm's article (archived on this site), Engineering a Tree Removal. But how the forces are vectored depends on how you rig the tree.
 
TreeLogic said:
For someone that doesn't even practice our art, it sure sounds like you're here to teach rather than to learn. How is that, when you don't even understand the intricacies of the job?
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My, but a number of people here are defensive and hostile.

I came to several arborist discussion forums ten years ago to learn the specialized techniques that no other rigging regime employs, such as DdRT and a variety of different friction hitches.

I also came to share my considerable expertise. Ironically, as I was learning DdRt from you guys, many of the cutting edge arborists were switching to SRT, learning from the many decades of experience of the vertical caving and rock-climbing communities (which invented vertical rope technique).

I respect expertise and knowledge wherever I find it. But I have little use for the propagation of bad information or poor technique wherever I encounter it. If you're not willing to be challenged, then I guess you really aren't very confident in your knowledge.
 
Rescue; don't fret. Hang tight, we shall converse tonight.

Eating lunch; Then doing a small crane job.

I am bothered by things you wrote today; but I doubt I'll get hostile.

It's okay buddy.

I like chisholms picture by the way. But it's a few other things like hardcoat creating a micro edge, no load rating and sand grain on a grigri severing a rope. Typical volunteer rescue or weekend rock climber geek stuff.
 
theXman said:
I had no idea you also had a problem with the rings. Or maybe it's just because they are linked to me. Well, come to think of it you generally have a problem with everything with everybody like I said before
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Stooping to ad hominem to avoid responding to the substance of a comment is a form of adolescent hostility.

theXman said:
Typical volunteer rescue or weekend rock climber geek stuff.
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And dismissing commentary with cheap remarks is yet more of the same.

But I eagerly await a more reasoned response.
 
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