Working with your competition

Royce, Working for him can be a great advantage during your slow times. When I worked up there we worked for several loggers, landscapers, other tree services and just out right handymen that did not have the skill to complete the work. Normally we would bring the crane, operator and a climber so right in the front yard was our billboard. The biggest reason it was a win win for us was because it was planned right. They were always really busy when we were busy so these jobs would be sold and scheduled for their slow time which worked out to be ours as well. The really cool part was these other crews began to change how they did thing. They began wearing hard hats because they saw us with them. They learned how to ad MA to pull trees... But they still called us for the technical stuff.
Biggest thing is don't give away those things that set you apart from others in the area.
 
Our industry has many challenges; one of the biggest is the lack of professionalism by competitors just like this guy. You have a choice here, not just about making money or not, but you have a choice to ignore the ignorant -who is now reaching out to you for help, or you can show this guy how a professional arborist works. He must already have some respect for you, or he wouldn't have asked. You have the opportunity to show him, his employees and his clients how to do things right. I would include him and his help on the job, with the understanding that you will only work with him if he follows industry standards. Use this as an opportunity to raise the level of arboriculture in your area. " A rising tide lifts all boats"
 
1adkarborist said:
Our industry has many challenges; one of the biggest is the lack of professionalism by competitors just like this guy. You have a choice here, not just about making money or not, but you have a choice to ignore the ignorant -who is now reaching out to you for help, or you can show this guy how a professional arborist works. He must already have some respect for you, or he wouldn't have asked. You have the opportunity to show him, his employees and his clients how to do things right. I would include him and his help on the job, with the understanding that you will only work with him if he follows industry standards. Use this as an opportunity to raise the level of arboriculture in your area. " A rising tide lifts all boats"
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Well said and I agree. I kinda think of the motto "If you want to go fast, go alone; If you want to go far, go together." I would like to think that at the end of my career I have helped the industry to produce better professionals. All while learning myself along the way.
 
This thread inspired me to start a new company. I'm now in the business of open heart surgery. That might sound weird, possibly dangerous; but I have it worked out. I don't have a degree in medicine, per se, but I'm pretty handy with a knife and I don't mind the sight of blood - especially when it comes from other people.

I went to an online forum of cardiac surgeons, a nice group with a friendly feel, they welcomed me right in and I drew up the proposal. I am completely unqualified for this line of work, but the doctors are taking my patients at a reduced rate to help elevate the profession. There are medical ethics at work here, and they seem to understand. Sometimes I just open the chest and then rush the poor soul to the emergency room for the rest of it.

I plan to be one of the larger brokers of thoracic medicine in my area. Doctors will ask me for referrals, and we will golf together. We will joke openly on the greens, hard kidding and easy laughter. We are a close-knit collegial group, people's lives are at stake.
 
archdruid, you're bleeding cynicism, you better go see your primary and pay $150 to get a referral to one of your new found colleagues who will undoubtedly order a battery of expensive and elaborate tests, which your insurance, or the government will pay for. You may have to travel to far away places to see a specialist who will consult with his colleagues while on the links, order new tests, perhaps even exploratory surgery. After months of hand wringing, and a malpractice suit, it is discovered that you weren't bleeding cynicism at all, you were just feeling stressed about your job!
 
Something Ive ran into in sub contract situations like what the OP described that will kill even a decent business relationship and even friendship is money. Make sure you put something into writing that you both agree on as far as terms for you getting paid. Then stick to it. All the work in the world is great especially in winter if you have aconnection that will keep you and your iron working. But if you don't get paid till June or its' $50 a week or " lets do this job quick then I can pay you for the last one you did for me" crap then heck you may have been better off not working rather than spend coin on fuel, payroll etcc and carry this guy for 6 months
 
I give different co's bigger jobs than I can handle myself and pay around 50% of the job. These are jobs I would not get otherwise. These are competition, and friends also. Until I work up to that point, this is a way for us to earn money on work we do not have equipment or manpower to handle yet.

Jobs we can handle I would not share.
 
i mis read your post

I would only climb for people you know well, communicate well and trust your life with

there are easier ways to stay busy with your own tree work in winter. fall sales are the #1 way !

get him to sub you the work like you mentioned and thats great for you , IF he is bidding YOUR climbing work correctly ?!o_O
 
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Seems you are eliminating clients in your locale for your future. In theory you are establishing a great relationship between his company and his client....score 1 for his side. He may be incompetent...but maybe cagey at the same time. Improving your competition whether for financial gain or not may be committing financial suicide. You may likely have gotten those jobs and clients anyway since he cannot complete them...but fat chance of that now.
 
treevet said:
Seems you are eliminating clients in your locale for your future. In theory you are establishing a great relationship between his company and his client....score 1 for his side. He may be incompetent...but maybe cagey at the same time. Improving your competition whether for financial gain or not may be committing financial suicide. You may likely have gotten those jobs and clients anyway since he cannot complete them...but fat chance of that now.
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That is what is holding me from actually doing any work for him. Also, I seam to fill my weeks up with not too much to worry about. I start to get a little worried that I will have no work for the next week, and by Monday the entire week is filled. I seam to really crank through the work as well. I have a real good crew working with me right now.
I'll be honest, I think that is why he is calling me. He wants me to help him with the work he can't go, and then benefit from my good work, and get more work from it.
I think I can find other way to stay busy in the winter around here. I was just wondering if working with the competition would be a good idea to stay busy. I am feeling like it is not, at least not at this point.
Also, if he was a certified arborist, had a good crew and equipment sand had the same morals and values about proper arboriculture as I do, then I think working with him would be a good thing. However, he has none of this things.
 
IDK, I feel like no matter who you're working with, if you outshine them you'll be remembered for that. Even if they don't use the other guy anymore they will probably seek out that guy who was honest, polite, and by the book.

This is what my conscience says but my experience tells me otherwise unfortunately.
 
Yeah, but I am feeling more like in order to really make it in this market, I need to go it alone. I started the business in June, and have been busy with 40 hours a week since my start up. All of that was possible with me buying out an existing tree business phone number and contact list.
I think next year will be even better with me getting a fresh start in the spring, with all my ducks in a row. I am looking forward to it.
 
Do you currently have an efficent way to move big wood? This guy has a log truck right? You could benefit from using him cheap to help you on your jobs and save for good equipment rather than buy crappy equipment cause you need it right away.
 
Yeah, that was an idea at first. I called him a few months ago to move wood for me and he said he could do it, but it would take him a week to get it done. I can not have my logs sitting on a customers yard for a week. I opted to do with a different guy, who got to it in a day. There are a lot of loggers around here and I can get logs moved fairly easy. Also, I keep all the firewood and try and sell that when things get slow.
I am about to pull the trigger on a mini loader to help move logs. When I get a large job I just call in a log truck.

I'll be honest I am still on the fence for this one. Some days I think just go for it, and see how it works out. Could be great for the both of us, could be terrible. But, you will never know for 100% sure unless you try it.
 
if you are capable of doing more of your own work quicker with a loader than that is your answer! surprisingly enough the loader is going to sell work for you! more neighbors will see you efficient and come out to you
 
It can definitely backfire. I helped a former employer build his company into what it now is. The guy knows how to prune and is great with PHC and diagnosis but didn't know much of anything from the technical side. As a result of my working for him and continuing to subcontract for him on occasion (though not anymore), he has gained a reputation as a technical, large tree specialist both in the pruning and removal realm. Now that I'm out on my own, I'd love to fill that niche, but he gets the call because of the work I did for him. His skills and competency in that realm have increased greatly but it is largely due to the training I did with him and his guys. I know I can win those clients over, but it'd be nice to have them now as I get tired of doing hedges and 30 footers. Oh well, that's building a business I guess.
 
I've worked with my competition a bit. Never had a problem. But I make way more $ selling my own work. The real question is do you need the work and would it be profitable?
If that's a yes then do it, otherwise keep rolling on your own work. It's good to make and keep friends, it helps if you have different niches. I refer clients to a few companies here that
have bucket trucks when it's a tree that wants a bucket. In turn I get a fair amount of back yard trees back. I'm trying to specialize in large tree pruning in back yards with tough access.
Good luck either way.
 
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