women with no competition

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i think some of you guys just don't get it how hard it is for women to even show up as competitors in some cases

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I do. The problem I have is way don't you get a desk job. There is very far and few that can roll like you Kath. I'd even go as far to say after 8 hours I not shore you could roll with most men. It's just silly and I lmao every time I see a girl climber. It to me is a damn joke.
 
well, mr resident loudmouth, i guess even you are entitled to your opinion. no match or gasoline needed - your opinion means nothing to me. laugh away.

back to the subject under discussion.
 
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my first comp i was the only woman - my footlock took 60+ seconds, i think i DQd in throwline, my AR was fairly lame, and the next year i won the damn world title! give us a chance to show what we can do for godsake.

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I will pass these words along to my good friend Susan Wright, currently the female representative for the PNW going to the ITCC this summer. This year she was the only female competitor and it was her first year of competing as well. While her skill wasn't a match for most of the men there her effort exceeded every single other persons, myself included. Watching someone do a 14s footlock is impressive for sure. I think Susans' time for the speedclimb was something like 3 minutes. Don't think that means she's feable because she certainly isn't. There was one awkward move after a 20' body thrust that was the consequence of a poorly executed setup that required a complete under-over mantle with no foot placement. She struggled on that move for a good minute and a half of all arms. Most men would have given up at that point, that I have no doubt. Despite already being exhausted she still completed the climb using her elbows because her forearms were completely pumped. Now THAT was impressive to watch. Out side of that she was always smiling and I'm sure had more fun than anybody else there.
 

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Tree climbing should be easy, not physically exerting, and not scary. People who make it seem like its a dangerous, tough, and difficult job are doing something wrong or not charging enough for their services. There is also lots of different kinds of tree work I suppose. I've somehow managed to stay away from any jobs that any sane, fit person, male or female couldn't do with the proper training. I guess you have to be a little insane but thats not gender based either.
 
I think it is a matter of how much drive a person has not their gender.
I remember when I first met Kathy she came up to me at a conference and said she would like to train with me sometime. Now I had been hearing that from people for years but they never show, at 4:30 after a full day of tree work their singing a different tune. So I had given up on finding a good training partner. Even with the handful who have showed up one or twice it usually turns into a fun climb of talking story in the tree.
So usually when someone comes up to me and says that want to go out and train with me I smile and say, “Yea that would be great” then think no more about it.
But then Kathy goes on to say that she has vowed (and was fulfilling her vow) to do 200 feet of footlock a day EVERYDAY. That’s when my jaw dropped and I said “What? Hello, what was your name again? When and where are you training because I’ll be there.” That was what I’m looking for is someone that can make me look like a slacker.
By the way my impression of Kathy has only gone up since then
 
Wow this has been a fascinating thread. We must not forget that women have only been allowed to compete at the ITCC since 2001. That was on the 25th anniversary of the ITCC. Our history (herstory) with the ITCC is still evolving and is obviously still experiencing growing pains. Our experience as women this male dominated industry is constantly being challenged through exclusion and unfair criticism (which is evident even within this thread). It is hard enough to encourage women into the field of arboriculture let alone to promote their participation as competitors at a chapter TCC. I admire and respect any woman who has the courage be the only woman to enter a competition filled with men. To assume that a sole woman competitor has no stress since there is not another woman competitor is bollocks. I should know, I started competing at the chapter level in 1993 and was the only woman for many years until 2001. It took that many years for me to witness another woman climber and that experience has drastically changed my career in the most positive and profound way. I am all about empowering women to have the opportunity to improve on their skills, to meet with other female mentors, and to participate at international events. For many women, going to the ITCC is the only opportunity to meet with another female climber. What happened to those early years of the "Tree Climbing Jamboree", when the emphasis was on promoting education, sharing of knowledge, and establishing broad fellowship amongst arborists. Why can't women experience a bit of that which men take for granted on a daily basis. On that note, it would be a shame for any woman's experience at a TCC to be reduced to a bunch of mathematical scoring formulas extrapolated from men's times and scores as a determinate to meet with other women climbers.
 
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On that note, it would be a shame for any woman's experience at a TCC to be reduced to a bunch of mathematical scoring formulas extrapolated from men's times and scores as a determinate to meet with other women climbers.

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The backstory on the formula is long and complex. It actually has its roots in a HUGE conflict that started with how the men's winner was chosen in a previous year. The Mn TCC committee didn't want to go through another conflict so a couple of us struggled to come up with a way to set a threshold for giving a trip to the ITCC.

Is this an example of the wooden ceiling that women face in arbo work? If so, the ceiling was set very low and weak. When we set the formula together we ran the numbers for a few previous year to see where a women's score would fall in comparison to the men's scores. If my fuzzy memory holds it seems like that would put the score at less than 40% of the chapter men's winner.

It wasn't for several more years that we heard of any women who were working as climbers in MN. Those women were recruited to enter the TCC and it still took time to have women compete.

At the ITCC in MN I spent an happy hour with several of the women competitors. We talked about this formula and I got beat up a bit. I expected this of course. In the end the dust settled and it was evident that the formula wasn't meant to discourage a women from entering the chapter TCC. It was meant to be a fair way for the chapter to allocate limited money. Remember...if two women entered both could score zero and one of them would have gone to the ITCC as a quest of the chapter.
 
It sounds to me like taking advantage of Michigan's first ever Womens' Exhibition climb (with prizes) would be the "place to be" (and also encouraging other women to come)!!! Oakland University, Between Auburn Hills and Rochester Hills, Michigan - August 21, 2010!
burnout.gif
 
Hey Tom, no disrespect to you (you know I love you!). It is a touchy subject when it comes to setting minimum standards that dictate who is good enough to progress to the ITCC. On the one hand, the skill level of the women competing at the ITCC has excelled at a fantastic rate, while on the other hand there is still the dilemma of how to get women to participate from chapters who have never had a woman represent their chapter at the ITCC. A chapter should be proud to support a female competitor whether she was the only competitor or not. It has to start somewhere. Personally, I think the chapter should be accountable for providing opportunity, support, and encouragement to any woman competitor in their chapter. That's the easy part. The hard part for the competitor is the commitment to train, to prepare, and to represent the chapter in the best way possible at the ITCC. The Last year the Ontario chapter started a campaign to have 10 women compete at the TCC. We fell a few short but i am certain this year Ontario will have bragging rights as first chapter to have so many female competitors.

Wenda Li
2002 Women's ITCC winner
ITCC Women's Liaison
 
Since we all agree that there are many women climbers out there that need some experience in competition - please take advantage of the MTCC's Women's Exhibition Climb (with a first place prize). Right now we have only one woman who seems to be interested in climbing for the MTCC and she is climbing for the MTCC Title. I am sure she would be thrilled to have some other women experienced or not experienced to climb with her at that event. Please contact Nancy Carpenter - Michigan Chapter of ISA (517-231-0354) or Dawn Thierbach - MTCC Chair(vicgartree - here on the buzz). Thanks
 
Wenda..I feel da Luv! :)

Agreed...it is tricky.

All of the formulas were made in order to have some sort of measure...that never has been needed anyway as far as I know.

It's hard to have women competitors when no one in the chapter even knows of a woman climber working in the area. What a great challenge you set, you'll meet it I'm sure!
 
Wenda Li,

Does your concern for not having women to compete against or learn from mean that YOU are going to join Starlet and other women in Michigan this year? Toronto isn't that long of a drive, shorter than some people in the state would have to drive to the competition?????? That could help take care of the formula issue, couldn't it.
 
Wenda? Kathy? If either or both of you come out for our event, PLEASE stay with me and my family. It's my home chapter as you guys know and Meg, Ben and I will be staying with my mom just 20 minutes from the site. I'll line up private rooms and my family would be thrilled beyond words to have you as guest. Kathy, I can even have wheels for you. Love you both.
 
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Tree climbing should be easy, not physically exerting, and not scary. People who make it seem like its a dangerous, tough, and difficult job are doing something wrong or not charging enough for their services. There is also lots of different kinds of tree work I suppose. I've somehow managed to stay away from any jobs that any sane, fit person, male or female couldn't do with the proper training. I guess you have to be a little insane but thats not gender based either.

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But then Kathy goes on to say that she has vowed (and was fulfilling her vow) to do 200 feet of footlock a day EVERYDAY. That’s when my jaw dropped and I said “What?

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With these 2 things said I need to pull myself back and say sorry about my post.

Now though I'll say this, why have two seperate comps just mix them super gals in with the guys and let the best 1 person go. You want to be equals no?
 
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You want to be equals no?

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You just say crap like that to bother people, right? I mean, do you really think women want to be 'equal' with men? Hello???

Treated equally? Of course. But men and women are not, and should never be expected to be the same. Jeez Holly! Keep the squirrel balls but grow a brain, bro!

-Tom
 

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