why spider legs?

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a birds eye view is much better than a person sitting in a crane seat... I can get my picks much more accurate, with me doing them instead of signaling an operator on a crane below...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see how that could be a true statement. As a climber placing the rigging I'm always looking up for the tip of the stick. If I feel it is not in the right location for the pick, I then will have to communicate to move the stick. It would be nice to be able to do that as a climber too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This video was taken at the rear entrance of the San Diego Zoo on a stormy day. 3 medium eucs were removed with a 120 ton hydro getting the picks on the ground, and a small 15 ton truck crane feeding the chipper and loading the wood.

Every pick was made with a single steel choker and clevis, even the unwieldy picks, one of which my avatar was made from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQOUEdSp3Pk

Note the way I hinged the unwieldy picks over allowing them to roll and orient themselves before finishing the cuts so the crane can lift them smoothly.

And before you rag me about not wearing my hardhat, bear in mind that I had a choice between the hardhat and wearing my radio set to communicate with the CO with, I chose the radio. This was before I got my Peltor ProCom plus hardhat/radio system that allows me to communicate with the entire crew with PTT.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Jomoco.

first of all, thanks for posting the video. most guys talk but never show their work.

honestly, try not to take offence to this, but after seeing your video, i understand why you would want a crane opperator to be quick on the controls. there was only 3 picks shown there, only two had brush on them. The two brush ones had a lot of movement and the oporator had to get them up and out of the way of you fast. I'm sure on the video editing, the very best picks were shown, makes me wonder how much the other picks must have moved.

yes i heard what you said about no hardhat that day and you don't want to get flack for not having one. But in this same thread, you are saying that me opporating a crane via remote is too dangerous, but YOU decided not to wear a hardhat so you could talk to your crane opporator. Doesn't take much of a knock on the head to kill ya without a hardhat.

hmmmmm. ?

again, i'm honestly not trying to get you upset, just discussing here.
 
No worries X-Man, I've done thousands of crane removals over my career and found the most dangerous aspect of crane removals are rookie CO's trying to prove how good they are.

The worst injury I've had in my whole career was caused by a rookie CO not following my explicit instructions to rotate each pick about 300 degrees to avoid damaging a live tree with an obstructing branch. But after about 12 picks this clown grew tired of rotating each pick and tore the live limb off the tree with the end of his boom assembly to speed things up. I chewed him out for this stupid move, but he just smiled at me and said time is money.

It was on the last pick that the cotter pin he had dislodged from his sheave bar during his boneheaded move allowed the 14 inch long steel bar on his pulley sheave about 90 feet above me to fall free and hit me on my left shoulder, shattering my collar bone into a dozen pieces and leaving my entire left arm useless with me about twenty feet up the remaining spar.

I worked my way down the spar to the ground with one arm, had my crew load my gear in my truck, then cussed the rookie SOB out real good before getting in my tooltruck and driving myself from Escondido to the Grossmont hospital emergency room with one arm in a stick shift truck.

My collar bone had been shattered to the point they had to reassemble it onto an upper titanium plate using screws to hold it in place.

The plate and screws are still in me today as I type this, and I can't use full power with my left arm without the screws biting into me rather painfully.

I didn't sue the crane company, but I did insist they pay for all my medical bills and downtime. And some day soon they'll be paying for getting this dang steel out of me as well as however long it takes me to recover.

Know your CO's and avoid the rookies that can't follow veteran tree men's instructions guys.

jomoco
 
Operating a crane or a bucket to take big pieces. Either way you need to know what the piece will do and where you need to be. What is the diff between me making a cut, then operating the crane or me making a cut from a bucket,moving it out of the way then a crane picking the piece. Either way your making a cut then picking the piece. The only time I see a problem is if the pieces being taken are not under control. I can honestly say I have never been daydreaming or talking on the phone when the crane was needed. That cant be said for all operators on the ground.

Ansi and osha dont have any regulations against this that Ive found. I comply with all the ansi standards.
 
It's pretty simple really, bucket trucks are not meant to lift any loads other than a man and his tools, but cranes are an entirely different situation. They are designed to lift thousands of pounds, and being on that crane physically to determine when something like say an outrigger sinking into the ground under a heavy load is more readily apparent to an operator actually on the crane than to an operator far away in the tree.

jomoco
 
I can see the whole crane and truck. When an outrigger sinks you can tell by the way the truck and crane shift. I operated a crane for a long time and understand the feel idea. I can tell visually.
 
I can usually see the whole jobsite and dont have blind spots like many non cab boom trucks. It is easier for me in most situations to see all personell.
 
Thanks for your responses, it's an interesting subject. I'm not understanding how you can cut through a branch and smoothly take it away when your running the saw and the crane. Doesn't running both require alot of snap cuts and stressing of the crane. That's what I think I have noted on some of the knuckle boom vid's I've seen. As far as ANSI and OSHA, I don't think they have even considered the subject, you guys are cutting edge.If they do consider it I strongly doubt they would green light it. Also, is there a possibility that if the climber would be injured, incapacitated that crane movements could be inadvertantly activated.
 
Snap cuts only stress the crane if there is too much wood between the cuts. When I am finished with the cut I put the saw down and then operate the crane so I dont need to do both at the same time. The remote has a safety stop that i use so the levers cant be accidentally activated. If I was injured the crane can also be operated from the crane.
 
Sketchy c/o's nearly taking my life, is what got me to switch to remote opp. I've been running remote from in the tree since 1997 with no accidents or bumps (crane rmvls. nearly every day)It feels so much better to me to have control over my own safety after some of the close calls i used to have with a few rental opps. Their visibility is so restricted during the growing season i'm amazed there aren't more accidents. Running remote is not something i would recommend to everyone. But for me & several others it is the safest & most productive way. (I'm not saying all c/o's are sketchy! I have worked with some AWESOME opps!
 
Thank you for the responses, I'm still not convinced for myself but it sounds like a good idea for you guys.

The reasons I will stick to an operator on the ground are because my operator is my dad who was a climber before an operator so he knows whats going on.

A crane operator and a climber with good communication have two perspectives on the tree so the crane operator can see things climber the can't and the climber can see things the operator can't.

Also on the money making aspect your climber can go to jobs not requiring a crane while the crane operator can go out on rentals.

And the last reason is because I hate snap cuts when working with the crane, I would rather a single cut straight through, it puts much less stress on everything.
 
[ QUOTE ]

And the last reason is because I hate snap cuts when working with the crane, I would rather a single cut straight through, it puts much less stress on everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont agree.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your responses, it's an interesting subject. I'm not understanding how you can cut through a branch and smoothly take it away when your running the saw and the crane. Doesn't running both require alot of snap cuts and stressing of the crane. That's what I think I have noted on some of the knuckle boom vid's I've seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't like snap cuts. i cut all the way through and the piece lifts up a few inches. But perhaps I haven't done them enough with the crane, or maybe my crane isn't strong enough. But it seems with mine, it take too much tension to break it off and too much movement afterwards.

crane tension is set correctly before the final fiber is cut. I can tell get it right as I'm making the cut.

I do not use the saw and crane at the same time, no need to. one then the other, one then the other....

this is motivating me to get a video out there, maybe I won't go to bed tonight, and get some video cut down...

I have thought about that a person on the crane would notice if an outrigger sank a little or something changed. I agree with this part being safer.

The birds eye view is a tremendous advantage though, I really do think.

As Mike said, full summer foliage is very difficult sometimes to see through.

I agree that some people probably aren't cut out to run a crane and be a climber. Shoot, many people shouldn't even be a climber.

A safety factor I see with a knuckle booms (nothing to do with a remote or the climber running it); is that the boom is often near the pick. So I tell the groundguys, do NOT get under that boom to untie the slings until you see it completely stop/ and hear the truck throttle kick down (that means I hit the emergency stop button). I also often raise my hands showing hands are off. Or else I could bonk someone of the head if i pushed the toggle too fast or somehow hit the wrong toggle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And the last reason is because I hate snap cuts when working with the crane, I would rather a single cut straight through, it puts much less stress on everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I've been in stone dead maples where I was afraid even after the cut to lean too far out on my lanyard beause the base of the tree was too rotten, I imagine if I made a snap cut I could have come to the ground, but the remaining stem would have likely landed on the house.

And a single cut gradually loads the crane where a snap cut potentially shock loads the crane.
 
Our guys aren't allowed to go near the pick until the operator gives them a nod.

What worries me about operating by remote is that you usually don't have a scale on the remote, you get a perentage scale showing how much you are using the crane.

You can buy remotes that tell you what your capacity is, I've been told its an expensive option but at least with this I know if it says I have 4000# capacity I can take a 2000# pick.
 
I make snap cuts all the time and there is no Yanking needed. there is no shock loading. The piece just sits on the trunk with the snap cut broken and then I pick the piece up.
I have never had a crane with a scale on it. If you are talking about using the scale before a pick,I have load charts that do the same as a computer. You just have to understand them. Once you have the piece cut I can tell the weight on mine by the chart and pressure sensors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTgYLTyO46I
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have never had a crane with a scale on it. If you are talking about using the scale before a pick,I have load charts that do the same as a computer. You just have to understand them. Once you have the piece cut I can tell the weight on mine by the chart and pressure sensors.



[/ QUOTE ]

yes you can do it that way, but I wouldn't, I would rather know how much capacity I have so I know how big of piece I can take, and I like to know how close I was to my weight estimate by using the scale.
 
Nice video Mark! The only piece that moved a bit quick was the wood cut. Nice work.

Jo, that accident sounds nasty. I would be tempted to hit the operator repeatedly with that steel bar, with my good arm of course.
smirk.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have never had a crane with a scale on it. If you are talking about using the scale before a pick,I have load charts that do the same as a computer. You just have to understand them. Once you have the piece cut I can tell the weight on mine by the chart and pressure sensors.



[/ QUOTE ]

yes you can do it that way, but I wouldn't, I would rather know how much capacity I have so I know how big of piece I can take, and I like to know how close I was to my weight estimate by using the scale.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do know how much capacity I have so I know what pick to make. I have a dynomometer I have hooked up. If I use the cranes chart it is dead on.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nice video Mark! The only piece that moved a bit quick was the wood cut. Nice work.

:

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeh that would have been better to use 2 slings in a balancer setup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom