When does a foot ascender or knee ascender become self-tending?

[Winchman]

The foot ascender will be here Monday. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[southsoundtree]

How far do you usually need to climb so that the weight of the rope is enough to pull it smoothly through the ascender?

I'm presently using a foot-loop attached to my double hand ascender, which requires no tending since the hand ascender is below my Zigzag. I'm considering switching to a foot or knee ascender, but I don't want to waste a lot of time/effort tending rope below it.

Concerns about wasting time should be relived with a standard system and ropewalker, IMO.


How do you reach you zigzag and get a good length of advancement with the ascender under the zz?

 

[Winchman]

I have an 18" length of rope from the carabiner at the tie-in point on my saddle to the bottom of the ZZ. That puts the ZZ slightly above my head, but I can easily reach the release with either hand. That gives me plenty of room for a long stroke with the double hand ascender. It also keeps the ZZ out of my line of sight when working since I've only got the ropes directly in front of me. I haven't had any problem with the ascender hitting the other rope as I climb.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

My current setup is DdRT with a simple hand and foot ascender combo and it's smooth as can be, similar to running up an srt line in the sense that your lifting yourself up with your legs with minimal upper body work (not saying it's the same as srt). Part of the key is your body position. So keeping yourself more upright and not leaning back too much, etc.

 

[southsoundtree]

How are you doing, Monkey?

I'm going to disagree that it is very similar to running up SRT, unless you use obsolete technology. Floating ascenders came out years ago.




I don't grip the rope with my fingers or raise my hands above my shoulders when rope-walking, unless I'm sprinting.


I don't know why @Winchman wouldn't roll with a floating ascender. You can make them inexpensively. Mine has been going for, I don't know, maybe a decade of a little less. Very compact. Sometimes I have a hard time finding on my saddle with the couple slings/ biners, bar tool/ biner, etc.


From what I have heard as a kid from my RN aunt, men working, arms overhead was a great predisposer to heart attacks.

Simple, smooth, steady, zero sit back, cheap, compact, ergonomic...what's not to like.



If anyone hasn't tried a dialed-in ropewalker, you are climbing at a good point in time.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I meant similar to srt / rope walking in the sense that you are lifting with your legs with the foot ascender with minimal upper body work which conserves energy.

 

[LBF]

I ended up getting a Jet Step and tried it out on Scion and Banshee line and it was self tending from the first step, really impressed at how easily it runs, I kept looking down to check it because it didn’t even feel Ike it was on the rope. Feel like a knee ascender would make progression faster and easier though

 

[Vicente]

My current setup is DdRT with a simple hand and foot ascender combo and it's smooth as can be, similar to running up an srt line in the sense that your lifting yourself up with your legs with minimal upper body work (not saying it's the same as srt). Part of the key is your body position. So keeping yourself more upright and not leaning back too much, etc.


View attachment 82010

That looks no where near as efficient as srt with a foot and knee ascender, when I drt/mrs I still run a foot and knee ascender still not the same but pretty close.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

That looks no where near as efficient as srt with a foot and knee ascender, when I drt/mrs I still run a foot and knee ascender still not the same but pretty close.

Meh maybe not quite the same, but I don't really climb srt. So this works well for me, and very little energy expenditure from upper body.

At some point I've thought about starting to incorporate some srt. Thought about starting off with the Unicender.

 

[evo]

Meh maybe not quite the same, but I don't really climb srt. So this works well for me, and very little energy expenditure from upper body.

At some point I've thought about starting to incorporate some srt. Thought about starting off with the Unicender.

Your most of the way there. Just add in a wrench, and tie a leg of your line off

 

[Vicente]

Meh maybe not quite the same, but I don't really climb srt. So this works well for me, and very little energy expenditure from upper body.

At some point I've thought about starting to incorporate some srt. Thought about starting off with the Unicender.

Just buy a knee ascender setup or make one, you can do it for like 75$ just the ct simple ascender a few feet of cord for a foot loop and some small bungee cord, that's what I'm using. Even just making a foot loop that comes off your hand ascender would make things easier.

 

[Winchman]

Please explain what a floating ascender is and how it works.

I considered getting a cheap foot ascender, but then settled on the Camp Turbo. After thinking about it more, I also ordered a Camp Turbo chest ascender, which can also be used as a knee ascender. That combo should give me several options to try with decent equipment.

Will the Camp Turbo chest work as a floating ascender?

 

[southsoundtree]

Meh maybe not quite the same, but I don't really climb srt. So this works well for me, and very little energy expenditure from upper body.

At some point I've thought about starting to incorporate some srt. Thought about starting off with the Unicender.

Idk, the unicender Was cutting edge.

A rope wrench is the simplest, cheapest option. DIY options ( i used an old hickory hammer handle and a scrap of cord, pre zk1, pre-slick pins.

If you can find a Hitch Hiker or HH2, it's a great device, but in part for spar work.
My original HH was $160 new, plus hitch cord over the years. Works like new. Looks mostly like new, aside from some superficial scratching.

Bulletproof, durable, compact, less expensive.


Wanting-to-Buy postings on Treebay have helped a lot of people.

 

[Vicente]

Please explain what a floating ascender is and how it works.

I considered getting a cheap foot ascender, but then settled on the Camp Turbo. After thinking about it more, I also ordered a Camp Turbo chest ascender, which can also be used as a knee ascender. That combo should give me several options to try with decent equipment.

Will the Camp Turbo chest work as a floating ascender?

Don't see why it wouldn't work just fine.

 

[Dan Cobb]

Please explain what a floating ascender is and how it works.

I considered getting a cheap foot ascender, but then settled on the Camp Turbo. After thinking about it more, I also ordered a Camp Turbo chest ascender, which can also be used as a knee ascender. That combo should give me several options to try with decent equipment.

Will the Camp Turbo chest work as a floating ascender?

AFAIK, "floating" just means the top end is held up by a bungee cord, which also makes it "self advancing." Both terms seem a little redundant, as I'm not sure how you'd otherwise rig a knee ascender unless you strap it to your knee or advance it by hand, neither of which seem like good options.

Just attach a foot loop/stirrup to the bottom hole and connect bungee to the top. I like to use as-small-as-possible screw links, oval on top, delta on bottom since my foot loop is 1" webbing. Or you can can tie a foot loop directly through the bottom hole. Whatever you use, you don't want the climbing rope dragging excessively on your attachments, foot loop or bungee.

Many options exist for where to attach the other end of the bungee. Chest harness. Over the shoulder to back of saddle. Over a tiny pulley on chest harness and down to your foot. Key thing is to have enough bungee length so it can raise the ascender as high as you can step without having it as tight as a banjo string when fully stretched (i.e. when your leg is straight.)

 

[Winchman]

Thanks, Dan. I've got some 1" strap, strap clamps, bungee, pullies, and quick links, and now the how to.

 

[Vicente]

Here's mine quick and dirty but it works well maybe someday I'll upgrade to a saka but I'm not in a hurry and Richard doesn't have any at the moment.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Your most of the way there. Just add in a wrench, and tie a leg of your line off

This is the old zig zag so not exactly meant for srt but yea I hear what you’re saying.

I’ve climbed DdRT my whole career mainly.

 

[Vicente]

This is the old zig zag so not exactly meant for srt but yea I hear what you’re saying.

I’ve climbed DdRT my whole career mainly.

Adding a knee ascender to that DdRT will make things way easier.

 

[evo]

Please explain what a floating ascender is and how it works.

I considered getting a cheap foot ascender, but then settled on the Camp Turbo. After thinking about it more, I also ordered a Camp Turbo chest ascender, which can also be used as a knee ascender. That combo should give me several options to try with decent equipment.

Will the Camp Turbo chest work as a floating ascender?

Floating ascender is referred to as a climbing aid, untethered as life support. Toothed and cammed ascenders when used as life support should be used in tandem with a second or backed up with a hitch. The new mechanical multisenders throw mud in the eye of that old but relevant dogma.
Point is if using a tooth ascender or rope grab, back it up, but who cares with a footie or knee ascender as it’s inherently backed up.
Now a triad rope walker, even arborist style is still debatable. A toothed ascender as your highest point of attachment isn’t a good idea in a tip break out or shock loading IF the ascender sees all the weight. It will shred the cover or sever the rope! Kernmantle ropes are the exception, as the core is the major load bearing member, double braids are deemed good enough. Toothed ascenders and kernmantles were developed together. A shock load on a kernmantle will shred the cover, peeling down the line acting as a cushion in a shock load. Something I never want to experience, so I keep a different point of attachment above toothed cams ABOVE my main attachment point.