What can a contract climber make in Northern CA?

Hey guys, I have a buddy who's moving to Northern CA here shortly and he asked me to look into what he can potentially make/charge as a contract climber there. He's been in contact with a few companies already, but he doesn't know what he should be charging over there. A hi/low price range, etc. Good production climber and faller, certified arborist, degree in forestry.
 
He's right. I was surprized at how little a well equiped climber could make in just the Bay area and Fairfax. That was in '07 though. Don't get me wrong, I was still super grateful for the work and to drive a chip truck over the Golden Gate almost every day. AND I worked with this legendary cat named Paul. He was the greatest. Worked with Chad Brey too. He turned me on to the shin guards I wear every day. Right arm!
 
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He turned me on to the shin guards I wear every day. Right arm!

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What brand? Been killing my shins as of late.

I think it all depends on where in Cali you go. Northern Cali has a whole different economy than So Cal
 
yeah - i think jomoco's guess is about right.

if you were north of the bay area, I think the numbers would be lower.

I think that you would need to get a contractor's license so you could have effective insurance as a contract climber. california contractor's license takes some work certification (they want you to prove 4 years apprenticeship, dunnno how strict they are) and also to take a law and business test. License sets you back about $500 to start, not to mention getting the ducks in a row. So make sure he has that on the radar, otherwise he's gonna be employeeing instead of contracting.

good luck - trees are awesome out here =)
pete
 
Ranger, tell your buddy I could use his help if he needs the work. I'd be able to give him a day here and there, some part time work at least. - as long as he doesn't charge an arm and a leg of course.
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Contract climbers in California would normally have a business license, and liability insurance i believe. Probably make what Jo said, 3-5 hundred a day, depending. He might charge around maybe 50 bucks an hour? With no paperwork it would probably be more around $30/hr, again it all depends.

Pete, is it legal to contract climb in California without a contractor's license? do you just need a business license? and/or liability insurance? Ahhh... too many damned laws!!! I'm just wondering what you meant by he's gonna be employeeing instead of contracting. - - California=confusing.

Ranger, making calls and contacts is probably the best thing he could do. Everyone around works so differently it seems. Having all his own gear and a climbing saw means more money, and of course being an Arborist and having that degree is a huge plus. I've talked to a bunch of biz owners and word is it's slowed down in the last three years, ten years, whatever... California, for the eight year running, is THE worst state to run a biz in. Probably why most businesses are moving the hell out. Personally, I'm not sure what to expect as for the future of tree work in California (It's my 2nd year fully lic/insured/w-comp) but i'm giving it a run eh? Still plenty of trees to cut, plenty of $ to make... i would hope.

Hey whiz, your pretty fortunate to be able to work with Chad Brey, I just watched the guy kill it in the Masters comp... got it on vid!!! Wish I could get some of his removals on vid, all in good time i guess... anyway lucky you.
 
If I were your buddy I would be getting some info on how business is doing in that area. Last time I was there (grew up one hour north of the bay area) work was slow and the demand for a hired gun wasn't happening. Now if you have a good rep which takes time to develop, you may fair well. I don't see it as an easy path though...

jp
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CreTree, Sorry it's taken so long to get back. I use cheap Wilson soccer shin guards but someone said UnderArmor makes an in sock pad without a hard shell. I haven't seen them though. Knee pads and shin guards are it for me. In fact I see more and more industry people armor up.'scuse the derail.
 
Bixler,

I ain't a lawyer, and have never talked to one about contract climbing in CA. I'm just guessing from what I've read and what my insurance agent has told me. I don't contract climb for anyone, i'm just plain old self-employed sole proprietor and do smaller work, no employees. And, yes, california laws are VERY confusing and there is no one place to figure it all out.

from what i understand (and i could be totally wrong about all of this):
when you contract someone, they are an independent company and must also have a *contractor's* license to do the work, not just a business license. they may be able to buy liability insurance, but if they have no contractor's license, the insurance company will probably deny the claim when they review it. A contractor's license is much harder to get than a business license, as I am sure you know.

your company worker's comp is going to cover your employees and may or may not cover unlicensed contract climbers (you'd have to ask your agent). I know a lot of them cover day workers, tho, so maybe that could be made to work for a contract climber. But then they would basically be employees and covered by the original contractor's worker's comp/liability. And you would pay them less because you would be bearing much of their overhead. The reason you pay a contract climber more (besides the tools and skills they bring) is that they cover their own overhead (which probably doesn't include their own worker's comp as they can opt out of it as the owner/operator). At the end of the year, you give them a 1099 instead of a W-2. The worker's comp issue can get really nasty when unlicensed people are involved and homeowners have lesser homeowner insurance policies. Of course, all sorts of things (like driving to work) can get really nasty if the luck is against you.

but, yep, ask your lawyer person about how contract climbing works. I'd like to certainly know more. ANd have fun out there in Nevada City - only driven through there a coupla times, but seems like a good spot!

pete
 
"A contractor's license is much harder to get than a business license, as I am sure you know."

Yes, pete I do know. Funny story actually, back in 2010 I decided to sign up for one of those Contractor State License Schools, went down to Sac for the two or so classes to study some test questions. It may have cost me around $500 . Anyway, I winged it, crammed it last night and some how past the test first try. I waited a while for my license to show up in the mail, finally got a call from Andrea, she was from the CA State lic board. Andrea told me that an investigation was being done, a red flag was raised due to my age, and that I needed to prove 4 years experience through W-2's, old invoices, have my clients sign them, and fax em' in ect!

So, I'm about a thousand bucks into this thing at this point and I just want my freakin CA LIC #, thats all. All the while I'm still working, a call comes in, my phone lady sets up a bid for me the next day during my lunch. I go to work the next day, climb 3 beautiful black oaks, come down for lunch, leave my two employees to take a nap in the shade until I get back.

I roll up to the house, in behind me comes another contractor, guy calls him over and says the wife will show him the painting job, and he walked over to me to show me the tree job. I didn't think anything go it at the time, figured the guy just bought the house, from the bay area, and is fixin' her up. He walks me down the long driveway showing me a few larger ponderosa pines, he explains to me that they are in the way of changing the road and needs them gone, stump and all. I bid it a $2,600, he says great when can you start? So, I'm stoked I got the job, he walks me into the home to meet his wife. She comes around the corner and introduces herself. I shake her hand and give her a card. My card at the time said "We do it all", she noticed and said, "We, who is we?" (knowing I didn't have workers comp). Right after that a Nevada County Sheriff walks around the corner, gun on the hip and all. The homeowner says "This is a sting from the contractors license board for bidding over $500"

Sheriff, nice guy, gave me that look of 'sorry man' as they had me standing in my carharts with my hands above my head, and frisked me head to toe. (and yes I was clean) hehe
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They walked me into the bedroom and sat me down at their little desk, quite the operation though... I'm talking laptops, headsets, half a dozen of them or so. They had other biz owners on the way to the house, giving directions to them on speaker phone , laughing their butts off cuz the contractor was lost. Guess they had busted 8 guys already and had another 8 to finish the day.

I told them I had passed my contractors lic, I was under review, and in the process of verifying my experience. They called Andrea (my case worker) and all had a good laugh. I just wanted to get back to work, and was trying to cooperate more than anything. In the end it just felt as if it was all just an extension of the contractor's license test. They slapped me with a $750 fine and told me I could write the judge and appeal, so I did, and he lowered it to $500. Hey every bit helps eh?

As I rode out of the driveway to get back to my 'big' job, I passed a tree truck gave a nod to the guy, and I hurried off. Now I think back, wish I would have flagged him down and gave him a heads up to turn around. Oh well live and learn.

Anyway, a business license is easy and cheap, and probably the way to go. If you want to legally bid a job over $500 in CA, then hang yourself like me and get your contractors license.

But yes Pete, this is a wonderful area, big trees, mountains, rivers, a lot of fun and worth every bit of the hassle... i hope.
 
Oh Bix - that *is* a crazy story. funny, in my last post I was about to make a dig that "all they do with the contractor's money is spend it on stings on non-contractors" but i left it out because I didn't want to be complainin'. But i hear about those stings quite a bit. Also, you not only aren't allowed to do jobs more than $500, you aren't allowed to prune a tree more than 15 feet tall - that is literally what the California code states.

anyhow, thanks for sharing your story. I think that happens quite a bit.
pete
 
Yeah Pete, It sure felt like they all had a quota to meet and that catching the vandals in the act was how they got paid. Oh well, I just do my part and keep on chuggin'. It definitely has been a learning lesson, gotta play by the rules or it may catch up to you. I guess I would rather learn it sooner than later? maybe.

So yes, after the contractor's license, the state mandates a bond. Something like $400 per year. This bond protects the homeowner up to $12,500 for a job that may be left unfinished.

Then comes worker's compensation. Now that seems to be the killer. I tell myself it's all for the better, and keep on chugging. They can dip their hands in my account at anytime, and they do. Scavengers, picking away at the leftovers. But at least the guys I work with are insured in case I drop a log on their head or they get bit by a rattlesnake or something. So far so good, no injuries, no accidents, no claims, I tend to pay good attention because If I screw up even once the comp company will drop me in a heartbeat. Funny thing is there's only one company that deals with worker's comp I guess. So I'm thinking it's a pretty good monopoly they have going, I mean geez they get something like 43 bucks for every $100 I pay out. Gulp.
 
You should do contract climbing in Humbolt. It is a real cash economy. When you say you trim trees in Humbolt though nobody knows what kind of trees you are talking about. And when you tell them they never believe you...
 
Ryan can you elaborate?

I've been through Humbolt several times, camped all around, just to check out the trees, and absolutely love it. The dream would be to expand out to the biggest of the big trees, seems like it's gonna take me some time though.

What do you mean by "it's a real cash economy?" I could only imagine how much money some of those trees are worth, to remove or trim but it seems like they are all protected or something. Anyway, just curious what your experience is in Humbolt County. Thanks
 
heehee - you don't need a license for *that*!
or a chain saw, neither ;-)

but you guys up in WA and BC wouldn't know anything about that, would you?
 

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