using a split tail...
- Thread starter jtfire17
- Start date
- Location
- Hawaii
what type of split tail are you using (single eye or eye and eye, two eyes) and what type of friction knot are you using?
jp
jp
That sounds fine to me. I always heard that for best performance, your split tail should be about 70% of the diameter of your climbing line. I personally have never used a smaller split tail for the Blakes, but I know you can purchase smaller cord made just for what you are talking about. I know I have seen Bee-line and Texex with just one eye splice for tieing Blakes, Tautline, etc.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Bearing in mind that I'm no expert, this is my experience with friction knots...
It depends on the friction hitch. I've only used a Blakes and a Distel for any length of time but the principles are the same for most knots.
I currently use a Blakes with roughly the same diameter as my lifeline... with a smaller split tail, a blakes seizes up easily and you'll be constantly loosening it. Same probably goes for a tautline.
A Distel works with same or smaller diameter. I use a distel on my lanyard adjusters at the same dia as my lanyard rope. I used to use an 8mm beeline distel for my split tail on Poison Ivy but it got to where it locked up on me more than I liked... I weigh 185.
The smaller the split tail diameter, the better gripping power, for lack of a better term. If you go to a smaller diameter you have to compensate with more turns (more surface area) in the knot to keep the friction the same or the knot will have to be tighter and more likely to lock up. The less surface area between the split tail and the lifeline, the tighter the knot will have to get to make enough friction to hold your weight. A small split tail diameter will support a lighter climber and still loosen easily but for a bigger climber it will tighten and seize more easily.
Best thing to do is experiment. I tried several different hitch cords with a Distel and a Blakes and for me, 1/2" Tenex (actually 3/8" buried full length inside itself) tied with a Blakes Hitch on 12mm Velocity or Poison Ivy is the ticket. When I double crotch I use my rope on a bridge instead of carrying a second split tail. Either way, the Blakes will generally only tighten up and lock if I have a jerky stop but the Tenex loosens easily with one hand.
I keep thinking I'll try a VT because I hear so much good about it but really, what I have now works as well as I want it to... besides, splicing Tenex is a snap.
It depends on the friction hitch. I've only used a Blakes and a Distel for any length of time but the principles are the same for most knots.
I currently use a Blakes with roughly the same diameter as my lifeline... with a smaller split tail, a blakes seizes up easily and you'll be constantly loosening it. Same probably goes for a tautline.
A Distel works with same or smaller diameter. I use a distel on my lanyard adjusters at the same dia as my lanyard rope. I used to use an 8mm beeline distel for my split tail on Poison Ivy but it got to where it locked up on me more than I liked... I weigh 185.
The smaller the split tail diameter, the better gripping power, for lack of a better term. If you go to a smaller diameter you have to compensate with more turns (more surface area) in the knot to keep the friction the same or the knot will have to be tighter and more likely to lock up. The less surface area between the split tail and the lifeline, the tighter the knot will have to get to make enough friction to hold your weight. A small split tail diameter will support a lighter climber and still loosen easily but for a bigger climber it will tighten and seize more easily.
Best thing to do is experiment. I tried several different hitch cords with a Distel and a Blakes and for me, 1/2" Tenex (actually 3/8" buried full length inside itself) tied with a Blakes Hitch on 12mm Velocity or Poison Ivy is the ticket. When I double crotch I use my rope on a bridge instead of carrying a second split tail. Either way, the Blakes will generally only tighten up and lock if I have a jerky stop but the Tenex loosens easily with one hand.
I keep thinking I'll try a VT because I hear so much good about it but really, what I have now works as well as I want it to... besides, splicing Tenex is a snap.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
ive used 10mm split tail (eye to eye) line on 11mm climbing line and ran into a lot of problems, mainly the line wouldnt grip hard enough on the line and i would creep down my climbing line, i swithed my line to a 1/2 inch line and didnt have the problem, then i switched over completely, got a 5/16 eye to eye prusik and a 11mm line and it works great,
ive used that set up before jtfire when i was first experimenting with split tails and it worked great but since ive switched over to a prusik system my climbing and knot control is 100 percent better, id suggest trying a prusik and see if the same happens for you, worst case scenario is that you dont like it and you have an extra prusik lyin around which has about a thousand other uses than just a climbing friction hitch, good luck and welcome to the buzz
ive used that set up before jtfire when i was first experimenting with split tails and it worked great but since ive switched over to a prusik system my climbing and knot control is 100 percent better, id suggest trying a prusik and see if the same happens for you, worst case scenario is that you dont like it and you have an extra prusik lyin around which has about a thousand other uses than just a climbing friction hitch, good luck and welcome to the buzz
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Marc,
When you say prusik do you mean eye-and-eye versus single eye? Or do you mean something different?
If you do, I tend to agree. My problem is every time I splice up an eye-eye, it gets used on a lanyard or given away. I'm still using a single eye, one of the first split tails I ever spliced, but when it's burned out I'm going eye-eye Blakes... I think it's called the Michoacan.
Just for clarification, I think of a split tail as separating the bridge from the end of the rope with either an eye-eye or a single eye hitch cord.
I'm pretty certain a Prusik is a symmetrical friction knot developed a long time ago for mountaineering. Do you use a Prusik knot as your climbing hitch?
When you say prusik do you mean eye-and-eye versus single eye? Or do you mean something different?
If you do, I tend to agree. My problem is every time I splice up an eye-eye, it gets used on a lanyard or given away. I'm still using a single eye, one of the first split tails I ever spliced, but when it's burned out I'm going eye-eye Blakes... I think it's called the Michoacan.
Just for clarification, I think of a split tail as separating the bridge from the end of the rope with either an eye-eye or a single eye hitch cord.
I'm pretty certain a Prusik is a symmetrical friction knot developed a long time ago for mountaineering. Do you use a Prusik knot as your climbing hitch?
- Location
- Swansea, UK
I got 12mm rope with a 13mm split tail. Problem?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
[ QUOTE ]
I got 12mm rope with a 13mm split tail. Problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
I tried that, 1/2" split tail on Velocity... couldn't keep it from slipping.
I got 12mm rope with a 13mm split tail. Problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
I tried that, 1/2" split tail on Velocity... couldn't keep it from slipping.
- Location
- Hawaii
jtfire17, you might try using some 3/8" tenex for a blake's. It runs really smoothly and seems to work well on a 1/2" line (which I'm assuming you're using?). The only downside to tenex is that it tends to wear quicker than other polyester lines.
good luck.
jp
good luck.
jp
- Location
- balancing on the edge . . . .
For my open split tail system I like to use the same diameter line as my climbing rope, which is poison Hi-V, the split tail i use The Fly about a 5 foot section with a scaffold hitch and a blake’s four wrap with a short bridge. That works quite well for me.
I also have a spliced eye that is about 5 foot and i have found that is MUCH to long a lenght, also using a blake's foru wrap
You have to work with it and see what works best
enjoy the trees you climb
jz
I also have a spliced eye that is about 5 foot and i have found that is MUCH to long a lenght, also using a blake's foru wrap
You have to work with it and see what works best
enjoy the trees you climb
jz
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