Using a crane as a tie-in point.

idrac123

idrac123

Location
Charlotte, NC
Have you ever been in a situation where you're working on a storm job, such as a tree laying on top of a house, and you have no secure tie in points to work the tree out. I've always used a bucket truck boomed over the house and repelled out of the bucket so that I'm secured while I walk around on the roof and cut up the tree. A crane would be so much more secure, but I'm running into an ANSI issue, where a crane can be used if it's the best way to access the tree, but technically we'd be using it to access a roof of a building to work out a tree. Any thoughts or experiences with this?
 
Others will chime in too

Using a bucket as a TIP doesn’t seem like a good plan. Ask the mfgr if that’s ok. When I was using a JBL telescoping work platform I emailed their tech people. NOT allowed and dangerous to load off-angle.

There is a crane use flow chart that works you through the steps to justify using a crane as a TIP. If someone else doesn’t link it go do a Search, it’s been posted before.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Others will chime in too

Using a bucket as a TIP doesn’t seem like a good plan. Ask the mfgr if that’s ok. When I was using a JBL telescoping work platform I emailed their tech people. NOT allowed and dangerous to load off-angle.

There is a crane use flow chart that works you through the steps to justify using a crane as a TIP. If someone else doesn’t link it go do a Search, it’s been posted before.
Click to expand...

Definitely, using the bucket as a tie in point was something that was done before we knew any better. It is NOT a mfgr allowed practice for the same reasons, off-angle load.
I was able to find the Crane Best Practices in Tree Removal Hoisting a Qualified Arborist in the archives, but no luck on the Crane TIP flow chart.

I'm looking specifically at Z133 - 2017 5.7.11.1,

"Only a qualified arborist shall authorize the use of a crane for hoisting a qualified
arborist into position when he/she has determined that it is the safest and/or only
feasible method to perform the work or to gain access to a tree."

Performing the work, in the example I'm using, would be standing on a roof, cutting up a tree that had failed in a storm and only using the crane as a safe TIP while I walked around on the roof. Does this outline in ANSI cover that scenario or am I bleeding into fall-arrest system territory?
 
I responded in the other thread. How is using the crane an off angle load? They can slew left or right and follow the load (you). I think if the structural integrity of the roof is in question then it should be good. If not I guess they'd suggest using ridge top roof anchors
 
From my limited understanding you can even ride the pick while tied in if you can rationalize it’s the safest method.. for me that would take quite a bit of rationalizing, but I can think of a few set ups where it would be the safer option.
 
I don't really see how this would be much different than putting a sling on while tied into the crane and limb walking into the trunk. This shouldn't bother a crane at all. At some point you have to use judgement and realize z133 isn't going to cover 100% of the possible situations out there. I tie into our crane at times when we encounter similar situations described in the original post. My safety comes before any technicality in the justification of the use of the crane.
 
Where's the "auto-post to all threads" button on here? I have a question about using a pogo stick to advance an SRT canopy anchor, and whether I should use pole or euro gaffs on the end of the pogo stick.

Actually, I think anyone who ties into a track lift, or towed lift, or similar probably has a death wish... but a crane? They're considerably harder to tip over with the weight of a climber, I'd think. So, if you set the crane up as though you were handling a 2-ton load, I'd think you'd be pretty safe from bad shit happening with a 200-lb. climber, no matter how sideways things went.

But, I don't do crane stuff, so that's just a guess. Still, a simple roof (peak) anchor or a 3/8" eye screw would be a more reasonable approach. A 10-oz. tube of plastic roofing cement (like Black Jack or DAP) and a caulk gun will seal any holes you leave, for less than $3 per tube.
 
Crane TIP can be raised higher reducing angle,
more than lower lift methods.
.
LIABILITY.
Whether crane, lift, bucket etc. i think all as CYA are going to say no.
In crane, the strength and stability should be there;
but unless friendly with cool operator
>>crane operators will quote the rule book, call boss, about all have underwriters w/specific rules:
NO live loads
NO angled loads
NO impact loads etc.
Even top support of this food chain: Cranes
>>are supposed to do straight, inline, static, vertical pick only
>>Anything else adds multipliers to formulae that CYA.inc doesn't cover as part of negligible liability exposure program..
.
Quoting a job by how last crane operator cheerfully helped, and get one showing up day of and demanding minimum and not wanting to play nice can realllllllllllllllllly bite...
 
Because a crane has an operator while in use, there should not be any need for off angle situations. Slack maintenance by the climber prevents live load multipliers.

Using random crane companies and operators is a bad idea. Take the time to make a connection with an operator/company that is familiar with tree work and its idiosyncrasies and stick with them.
 
So you are correct on riding the load but you need to be at 30% of your chart and no more. Many crane companies hide behind osha but it comes down to company policy. My company policy is, if you are deemed to be a competent arborist(by me) then you get a ride. If your barely able to wear the correct PpE and you’re a hack, time to start climbing. I’ll ya e the rigging waiting for you when you get there
 
When did it change to 30%? I remember it used to be 50% per the tcia literature. I have ridden the pick a couple of times when the tree was so sketchy I didn't want to be tied into it. No access for a bucket truck and no adjacent trees to tie into. We always stayed way under 50% when doing this anyway.
 
You can't always rotate the crane, if there are interfering objects. Might still have a side-load. Seems hard to hurt a crane with a climber's weight, but I suppose
 
30 degrees is 50% side loading(with only 14% column support loss requiring more tension) might be the confusion.
>>.5773 is the tangent at 30degrees, so might see own bodyweight as load x .5773 as sideforce at 39
.
i totally believe crane is up to task, and that operators do to.
This is totally abut the what-if liability of underwriters i think.
 
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