Unicender

Just want to chip in about the UNI. I was skeptical at first but jumped on my chance to get one late last year.

I ascend even short hops with it in a rope walker config, adding a Pantin and hand ascender and foot loop. UNI does well in RADS and DdRT, or just foot-locking up, too.

Again, its used as an ascent, work positioning, and descent device, with little or no changeover. I can make super fine positioning adjustments with one hand.

My limb walking experiences have been comparable or better than eye-eye family of friction knots, and are more filled with tending the tail and weaving my own body through the brush than snagging my rack; its a Unicender, not a Unich-sender.

Cut your line with a saw; go plop? Would that be better address that topic in tying in twice rather than which rope technique?

Jimmy: Uncle Sam does like to give us a break to buy tools. Have your accountant tell you how you can afford it.
 
I've never climbed on the F8/Revolver setup that Treebing uses but it does look like a really good system.

There is always a concern for cutting a climbing line. There are very easy protocols to put in place that would eliminate the danger. There are more real and apparent dangers that we face every day than this though. Get me to the jobsite and off the road and I've eliminated most of the risk of the day.
 
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Jamin, I am confident that everyone with an interest in climbing more efficiently will be climbing SRT pretty soon.
There are so many advantages. people are not doing it now because they dont know how yet and they think they need lots of money and shiny toys. not true. SRT is accesable to us purist rope guys with a disdain for expensive mechanicals.
SRT is great.
Bowlegs, the F8 revolver method you can go back and forth from SRT to dDRT at leisure and my whole SRT system was built with a dmm revolver and a figure 8 (73 dollars). but I already had both of those peices so it cost me nothing extra.
I know SRT is better because the other day I dropped my eight and could not find it for a while. I did the rest of the tree dDRT and was miserable and felt like I was fighting friction and everything was soooooooo slow.

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I think you are delusional. There is no way SRT is more efficient for working a traditional climb. Honestly I think you guys are so wrapped up in the idea of SRTing everything all the time you've lost a good grip on what really is efficient, and when to use SRT and when not to. Tom said he was happy with a 60th percentile rating in the geezers using SRT. I understand a comp is far from realistic compared to actual working but a 60th percentile is equivalent to a letter grade of a D almost an F. Is that more efficent? Treebing did you use SRT in any of your local TCCs or at the ITCC? If so how did you place? Id bet the 60th percentile or lower perhaps.
Im so confident about it Id even challenge myself against an SRT climber in a work climb of sorts, and would put money on myself winning by a landslide. And I would call myself a mediocre comp climber at best. Any takers?
 
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Im so confident about it Id even challenge myself against an SRT climber in a work climb of sorts, and would put money on myself winning by a landslide.

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uuummmm what knid of money we talking? Not that I'm a big SRT fan, but I could use the spare change.
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Changing TIPs is one of the best things about SRT.

All that you do is get to your new TIP, lanyard in...then, one of two ways:

1-leave the Uni on the harness, take it off the rope, move the rope through the new TIP, reattach the Uni

2-leave the Uni on the rope, put it and the rope, through the new TIP, reclip the Uni to the harness and continue on your way

When you're done, pull the rope out. Since the rope just threads around the tree it will slide out. Oh, of course, there has to be some planning so that there aren't so many redis/TIPs that there is too much friction.

At times I'll use an in-tree throwline to reset the TIP too. There's no need to setup complicated sling/biner/pulley redis for a new TIP, the tree is full of them.

As far as a race...it wouldn't be realistic to do a head to head really. A more realistic race would be to do the same tree with SRT then DdRT. The climber is the variable not the climbing system.

I've come up with a more complicated head to head test for the two systems. Time of setup, energy expended by the climber, time to do the climb and time to clear the gear are all accounted for.

Until a climber has air-time on the Uni I don't think that anyone can fully understand how well it works.

As far as getting a D in the Geezers, that may be one way to look at it but, I was the oldest climber that day competing against full-time production climbers. My climb time could be counted in hours not weeks. So...finishing the work climb at the 60th percentile was dang good...but, I may have been higher...so what? Hahaha! It's about fun and being a Geezer!
 
Tom,

I am really interested in your Srt set up. however i dont fully understand your way of putting it to practice. Can you illustrate?

The question addressed above on how to change your Tip, puzzles me. For example working on srt you would need and anker point somewhere in the form of a knot.
Hence how do you change over with out going back and forward / up and down between the two tips?
 
Srt isn't meant for multiple TIP changes. I agree with top on this one (except for your approach of course). Srt has a spot for climbing, it is great, if not the best for certain scenarios but it will never fully replace ddrt (which I'm pretty sure tom didn't say it would)

Srt is the future of tree climbing. Will it replace ddrt? No. Why? For the reason top mentioned.

I srt when given the chance or if I'm just down right tired from the hard days work and the thought of foot locking makes me throw up in my mouth. It really is more efficent (for me anyway) then footlocking.

I'm excited about my uni. It's going to open up a whole new venue of srt style climbing for me. Know what else is great? On the jobs that srt doesn't make sense, I can use it for ddrt. That's what's great about the uni (although, like hollen said, smaller version would be sweet)
 
Tom I understand how to redirect using SRT, but how would you CHANGE your TIP? Say your doing a crane removal of a multiple leader tree. The leads are far enough apart requiring you to retie into each one as you begin to work them. You sling one lead to the crane then it needs to be cut, how do you remove your TIP from the top of that lead and retie to the next.
 
Once you get your Uni you'll find so many different ways you can use it. Running a pulley up on a butterfly with your hitch climber set-up so all you have to do is step off the Uni on to it. When you are in the right tree you can work the whole thing srt off the Uni. I think you use different techniques to get around the 1 to 1 deal. The most important thing in making the change to srt is to adapt, it has it's strong points and it's weaknesses. I'm a little older than Tom and the Uni makes 3 in the afternoon a little easier and like I've said before that's a good thing.
 
Top. Why would you use srt during removals? Throw the spikes on and use those for ascent. I am often belayed into larger trees, past the larger portions of wood that can be rather annoying to flip line past then I'm off to the races.
 
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Cammed ascenders cannot take even moderate falls without damaging the rope or fail themselves. They are simply not designed for that. So to set up a working system from them is just not appropriate.

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I always have my weight in the system. I never have enough slack to generate shock to the cam/to cut the rope.--Never. If I were to be working out on a limb, and I were to slip, then I would be taking a swing. That's it. And in the past 8 years of climbing for nearly 5 days per week, most likely multiple trees per day, I have taken 1 unexpected swing, and 2 misjudged swings. With constantly tending slack, I will never generate shock to my climbing system. --Never.

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I also have never seen one fluff on my KMIII from the toothed ascender. --Never. Besides, if we were to entertain the possibility of the toothed ascender cutting the rope, then that is what the non-toothed rope grab is for.

The system I seldom use is not "my system" either.
 
Easy there, spunky.

I wasn't trying to criticize your experience and knowledge, just pointing out a potential weakness in a system that is easily corrected. Why would you purposely introduce a weakness in a working system if it was readily avoided?

I understand the limitations of our equipment also and always tend slack to protect myself from an unintended fall. However, I have experienced a few.

You can flip a coin for 8 years and always come up with heads; doesn't mean the very next time you flip it you won't come up with tails.

Dave
 
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...just pointing out a potential weakness in a system that is easily corrected. Why would you purposely introduce a weakness in a working system if it was readily avoided?

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Dave. With my calculations and explanations above, there is no weakness. If there were, the ascenders wouldn't be made. And because they are being made, there are many people (not just in the tree industry) who use toothed ascenders on rope.

Using cord is fine for these applications, but the handled ascenders are ergonomic and don't have any friction when advancing.
 
Jamin, I use toothed ascenders also. And smooth-cammed rope grabs. But for their designed purpose, not as an anchor point for a working system. This is beyond what they are designed for. Maybe someone else could dig up the numbers here.

Dave
 
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Jamin, I use toothed ascenders also. And smooth-cammed rope grabs. But for their designed purpose, not as an anchor point for a working system. This is beyond what they are designed for. Maybe someone else could dig up the numbers here.

Dave

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You have a point. There needs to be some research to show the risks. I'm open to that, to convince me otherwise.

Are you also concerned with the hole (on the bottom of the ascender) where the DRT system is attached with a carabiner? If the aluminum has to potential for failing at that point, then that has my attention.
 
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Why would you use srt during removals?

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Exactly!

Thats my question to those who think SRT all the time is the answer and the future of climbing. Treebing and Tom say its more efficient and thats all they use.
 
blah, blah, blah...

Sorry, it just seems as though you guys are beating a dead horse. Is SRT the best thing since sliced bread or is it evil and deplorable or is it another useful tool for the toolbox to be used when the time is right? Yes, no, maybe? blah, blah, blah... If you've read this far then you know the benefits and applications of SRT so try it out for yourself and see how it treats you. If you don't understand the concepts involved then get a good teacher before you try anything dumb.

Hope I didn't kill the thread cuz' it's flippin hilarious watching yous guys pick nits...carry on.
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