So a 15 KN rating is cool with you guys for a working life support piece of equipment in this biz?
jomoco
jomoco
Unicender w/ Barrel Attachment
- Thread starter oceans
- Start date
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
What tool are you talking about? Link the factory manual that shows the spec.
I was replying to Moss, who stated he's got no problem climbing on the current ZZ. Apparently because he's so confident in his abilities to ensure its load axis is correct whether he slips and takes a ride or not.
jomoco
jomoco
countryboypa31
New member
- Location
- PA
15kn is fine by mean. Your body will break before 15kn.
The ideal tool, it seems to me, would be one that was designed to slip to some extent under a shock load which was damaging to the body. This approach has been used by a product engineer I know who designed a safer airplane seat with a Steel tube with an S shape on both sides of the support frame. The tube has a spring through the tubing which allows the tube to collapse but not kink under a shock load which would other wise be damaging to the spine. Even cushioning the sudden stop a handsbreath or two could make all the difference.
I gather that the unexpected load axis that caused the ZZ to fail at 4 KN is fine with you too?
These 5K lb minimum capacity ratings are just foolishness eh?
jomoco
These 5K lb minimum capacity ratings are just foolishness eh?
jomoco
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
You use carabiners that have a 4k or less rating when cross loaded.
Only for light speed lining of brush and such Kevin. Never for primary life support. I prefer locking drop forged steel rope snaps for that.
jomoco
jomoco
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
[ QUOTE ]
Must be tough out there... My career as a competition climber is pretty dang cushy I admit.
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Come on Kevin, we all know you are raking in the big bucks with your pro sponsorships, television commercials, NIKE endorsements etc...
There is no way you actually work for a living
Heck I bet the ropewrench invented, produced, financed, developed, and distributed itself.
Must be tough out there... My career as a competition climber is pretty dang cushy I admit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Come on Kevin, we all know you are raking in the big bucks with your pro sponsorships, television commercials, NIKE endorsements etc...
There is no way you actually work for a living
Heck I bet the ropewrench invented, produced, financed, developed, and distributed itself.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
I gather that the unexpected load axis that caused the ZZ to fail at 4 KN is fine with you too?
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That's what Petzl has to fix, of course it's not ok.
I don't think the ZZ problem is proof we shouldn't try new gear and technique. It's like a potential limb failure. We know a limb can fail but we still climb trees. We make an assessment of a limb's safety and we climb. We should do the same calculations every day with every part of our climbing system.
-AJ
I gather that the unexpected load axis that caused the ZZ to fail at 4 KN is fine with you too?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what Petzl has to fix, of course it's not ok.
I don't think the ZZ problem is proof we shouldn't try new gear and technique. It's like a potential limb failure. We know a limb can fail but we still climb trees. We make an assessment of a limb's safety and we climb. We should do the same calculations every day with every part of our climbing system.
-AJ
My problems with this new fangled stuff being used aint necessarily with you pros using it. Though I don't myself.
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
I think a unicender is more idiot proof than a blakeshitch.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
[ QUOTE ]
My problems with this new fangled stuff being used aint necessarily with you pros using it. Though I don't myself.
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually agree with you for the most part. However, I think the types of climbers that you are referring to are not dropping 400 bucks on a unicender. They can either afford a unicender because they are independently rich and don't really have to climb trees to make a living and so they don't abuse their equipment cause they always have the new stuff. Or they are rich because they can climb trees really well. It is a self resolving situation so I don't see the problem.
As a professional competition climber I fall into the first category except that I don't own a unicender yet.
My problems with this new fangled stuff being used aint necessarily with you pros using it. Though I don't myself.
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually agree with you for the most part. However, I think the types of climbers that you are referring to are not dropping 400 bucks on a unicender. They can either afford a unicender because they are independently rich and don't really have to climb trees to make a living and so they don't abuse their equipment cause they always have the new stuff. Or they are rich because they can climb trees really well. It is a self resolving situation so I don't see the problem.
As a professional competition climber I fall into the first category except that I don't own a unicender yet.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
My problems with this new fangled stuff being used aint necessarily with you pros using it. Though I don't myself.
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are good points. Does that mean we should not discuss new gear and technique publicly because we are afraid a newbie will hurt themselves? I think the answer is no.
This has been a longstanding question in the rec climbing community I'm part of. Years back there were discussions about whether instructions to tie a Blake's should be posted online. Luckily some knot site that didn't have anything to do with tree climbing posted Blake's instructions ;-) It's one of the reasons some of the dedicated rec climbing forums have been less vital than they could've been over the years, many experienced climbers refused to talk about anything but the most basic technique. I'm against that kind of information withholding. Same for pro climbers, it's amazing how quickly safer and more efficient tree climbing gear and technique is being developed because of online cooperation. Rope wrench is a perfect example of that.
-AJ
My problems with this new fangled stuff being used aint necessarily with you pros using it. Though I don't myself.
It's the beginners and novices so enthralled by pros using it in the videos they watch on YouTube etc, thinking wow I gotta get that stuff so I can be as fast and smooth as those guys too!
They may not be as conscientious as you are about not only inspecting their gear on a minute by minute, second by second basis, but even a daily basis, or which working situations that gear is appropriate for?
They're much better off using a foolproof and bombproof climbing system more forgiving of mistakes made by them during the course of their education in this biz. Kinda like making a newbie prove he can climb and prune safely with a handsaw before letting them go aloft with a trimsaw.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are good points. Does that mean we should not discuss new gear and technique publicly because we are afraid a newbie will hurt themselves? I think the answer is no.
This has been a longstanding question in the rec climbing community I'm part of. Years back there were discussions about whether instructions to tie a Blake's should be posted online. Luckily some knot site that didn't have anything to do with tree climbing posted Blake's instructions ;-) It's one of the reasons some of the dedicated rec climbing forums have been less vital than they could've been over the years, many experienced climbers refused to talk about anything but the most basic technique. I'm against that kind of information withholding. Same for pro climbers, it's amazing how quickly safer and more efficient tree climbing gear and technique is being developed because of online cooperation. Rope wrench is a perfect example of that.
-AJ
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer locking drop forged steel rope snaps for that.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
ouch! is that what you been slapping yourself with?
I prefer locking drop forged steel rope snaps for that.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
ouch! is that what you been slapping yourself with?
I've busted my knuckles and face far worse throwing a "bombproof" snap around than by using the rope wrench. I've also spotted guys climbing with old rusted snaps that no longer close on there own. Nothing is n00b proof, even methods proven safe through decades of work.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Driving is the most dangerous thing that we do...is anyone likely to go retro? I know that Kevin has some bicycle arboring in his past though.
I know few people who have gotten hurt using a chainsaw. I know A LOT who have gotten hurt bad with a handsaw.
The world is and will always be a dangerous place.
Whose responsibility is it to reduce risk? Geez...casinos make their living knowing risk.
The Uni did have a warranty issue. It was solved and addressed.
Luddite thinking is fine for individuals but shouldn't be forced onto the rest of us.
I know few people who have gotten hurt using a chainsaw. I know A LOT who have gotten hurt bad with a handsaw.
The world is and will always be a dangerous place.
Whose responsibility is it to reduce risk? Geez...casinos make their living knowing risk.
The Uni did have a warranty issue. It was solved and addressed.
Luddite thinking is fine for individuals but shouldn't be forced onto the rest of us.
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Sooooo *ahem*. This looks like a good improvement. This mod, combined with a slack tender upgrade and I'd happily drop the 6 bills for the stainless version
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer locking drop forged steel rope snaps for that.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
ouch! is that what you been slapping yourself with?
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol, no Kev. That would be rather difficult to do with my old school setup 4 D ring saddle. Though my three finger monkey fist and its anchor hitch tail has smacked me in the face a few times!
I bought a floating bridge saddle many years ago though. Somewhat similar to what many of you use today, though much heavier I'm sure, big steel D rings and all, and hated the floating bridge action big time. No triangulated stability whatsoever. I'd catch a branch with one hand and slide one way, shift it to the other side and slide that way. All that this way and that way with both feet planted really torqued my back and the loss of stability was such that I sold it as quick as I could.
Didn't fit my climbing style at all. But hey whatever works best for yu right?
Congrats on your NC TCC win by the way, my home state.
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer locking drop forged steel rope snaps for that.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
ouch! is that what you been slapping yourself with?
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol, no Kev. That would be rather difficult to do with my old school setup 4 D ring saddle. Though my three finger monkey fist and its anchor hitch tail has smacked me in the face a few times!
I bought a floating bridge saddle many years ago though. Somewhat similar to what many of you use today, though much heavier I'm sure, big steel D rings and all, and hated the floating bridge action big time. No triangulated stability whatsoever. I'd catch a branch with one hand and slide one way, shift it to the other side and slide that way. All that this way and that way with both feet planted really torqued my back and the loss of stability was such that I sold it as quick as I could.
Didn't fit my climbing style at all. But hey whatever works best for yu right?
Congrats on your NC TCC win by the way, my home state.
jomoco
- Location
- Salmon Arm British Columbia, Canada
How old is the Uni now ?
Secondly how many years does a product have to be used, and dare I say it...abused, by working climbers to lose the 'new fangled', tag ?
Just curious.
Secondly how many years does a product have to be used, and dare I say it...abused, by working climbers to lose the 'new fangled', tag ?
Just curious.
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