Two Rope Climbing

Only twice have I done what I refer to as the Spiderman. Two large trees with smaller trees of interest in between. Put a base tied SRT line up each outside tree, ascend with pantin one side a bit at a time like a traverse vice versa for descent. Rope angle becomes a limit. both systems RWs

Sometimes I considered my SRT mainline and DRT long lanyard as 100% life support function alternate/interchangeable during a climb but only with due consideration given to the DRT tip.

TRT is another animal again.
 
Steve Connally said:
ahhhh yes but this cool device had 2 pulleys independently running, separated by plates and each had its own independent axle all engineered to be 1 unit. It was almost like each bridge had its own pulley. It truly was nearly redundant where the Axis isn't redundant. It just has 2 bridges running through it. You have a bridge and a backup bridge if one fails. What if the Axis or the biner connected to the pulley fails? We were kinda there with the redundancy but it fizzled out for bigger and better mousetraps. I'm not saying your system isn't a great idea. It most certainly is. It's just not truly redundant. But......it's better than just one bridge for sure.
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What was the swiveling connection to the dpuble attachment point? That becomes a single point of failure, right?
 
Yet another variation last week. Suspension between two trees, 3-D positioning provided by my hook line while I was dismantling the top of a hollow leaner black locust. I was essentially working on a 45 degree angle mostly dead tree with the top contacting a sugar maple (in back). The tail of my Yale Pink Moon, is redirected up to the left to keep it out of the work zone.

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The positioning was so strong for running a saw I never needed to lanyard in to the black locust. Indeed the bridge is potentially vulnerable as we've discussed in the past. Flexible positioning allowed me to keep the bar well away from the bridge. Awareness and subtle positioning adjustments make a difference.
-AJ
 
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There are situations it’s necessary of course but with a 2nd lanyard and the “dragging tail” method it’s usually just way too cumbersome, at least around here. Indeed, @SoftBankHawks has some very very neat diagrams of ideas with hardware for two lines on his instagram (woodenhand) but it’s a whole new futuristic dialect. Look up TRT on here.

I carry my bulldogbone at all times for the random unexpected srt swap and dragging tail and it has done what I need for a while now.

Give the forums a good dig. There’s a whole lot of stuff from the 5-10 years ago range specifically that will keep ya reading.
 
I'm not required to use two in my area. I always use two systems, unless I'm working a spar-type tree (conifer), or just working a small tree, like 20-25 feet up, and I can lanyard in on the way up. To your question, when ascending, I have found that if my saw is clipped to a hand ascender or rope grab at the bottom of my "safety" rope (not using it to ascend) my Camp Druid Pro descender will slide up the rope with only the upward force of my bridge. I use two bridges, one with each system, and no swivels. If you want to know any more, please ask.
 
telecasterfool said:
I'm not required to use two in my area. I always use two systems, unless I'm working a spar-type tree (conifer), or just working a small tree, like 20-25 feet up, and I can lanyard in on the way up. To your question, when ascending, I have found that if my saw is clipped to a hand ascender or rope grab at the bottom of my "safety" rope (not using it to ascend) my Camp Druid Pro descender will slide up the rope with only the upward force of my bridge. I use two bridges, one with each system, and no swivels. If you want to know any more, please ask.
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Could you take a photo of that setup?
Do you do a lot of spreading prunes, why set two lines always- or were you referring to a lanyard as a second system?

I only run a single bridge and I do have to be extra mindful on rope management. There have been times a second bridge would have helped a lot! I’ve gotten pretty twisted up in rope maneuvering around in a canopy from two systems, a lanyard and various rigging
 
Neill said:
Could you take a photo of that setup?
Do you do a lot of spreading prunes, why set two lines always- or were you referring to a lanyard as a second system?

I only run a single bridge and I do have to be extra mindful on rope management. There have been times a second bridge would have helped a lot! I’ve gotten pretty twisted up in rope maneuvering around in a canopy from two systems, a lanyard and various rigging
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I will work on a picture for you, when I have it set up - are you interested in the bridge setup, or the saw/weight, rope grab and Druid? or both?

When I started I read an article about an arborist who was subsequently certified in rope access. He discussed the differences and the benefits of that second line. I was brand new and working for myself so I ran two complete systems - very slowly! Since then I have continued to make my system more efficient, but more importantly, think about and plan my work around two systems. I live in spreading tree country, so sometimes having the systems on opposite sides is helpful (not 40' from each other - maybe 20') In my opinion, the biggest safety gain is during the initial ascent, before you have seen the tree from above. If the ascent will be long, I ascend with a Tazlove2 and switch to two Druids and use RADS. If no long ascent, I will RADS up. I can carabiner the two ropes together above the Druids and run both with one hand - more pressure on one will change the trajectory of descent. Rope management is definitely increased. I still usually lanyard in when cutting, but once in a while, it's nice to not have to. Hope this helps.
 
I love climbing with two separate systems when needed. Positioning possibilities are tremendous! But it's not something I do as a matter of course as one rope, set properly, works just fine. I tried two bridges for several months and did not feel that the extra bridge added any significant benefits. I trust the strength and robustness of my single bridge as much as my single rope system. If I didn't, adding two wouldn't help.
 
telecasterfool said:
I will work on a picture for you, when I have it set up - are you interested in the bridge setup, or the saw/weight, rope grab and Druid? or both?

When I started I read an article about an arborist who was subsequently certified in rope access. He discussed the differences and the benefits of that second line. I was brand new and working for myself so I ran two complete systems - very slowly! Since then I have continued to make my system more efficient, but more importantly, think about and plan my work around two systems. I live in spreading tree country, so sometimes having the systems on opposite sides is helpful (not 40' from each other - maybe 20') In my opinion, the biggest safety gain is during the initial ascent, before you have seen the tree from above. If the ascent will be long, I ascend with a Tazlove2 and switch to two Druids and use RADS. If no long ascent, I will RADS up. I can carabiner the two ropes together above the Druids and run both with one hand - more pressure on one will change the trajectory of descent. Rope management is definitely increased. I still usually lanyard in when cutting, but once in a while, it's nice to not have to. Hope this helps.
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More so the rope grab and Druid . I can picture the saw setup , essentially just a weight to allow hands free tending ? That is something I have done in the past but have just ventured away from. For me It was always a bit awkward setting it high enough to be effective but low enough to still be able to get off the ground and get my ascenders above the saw. I see others use a throw weight. I’ve tried my rope bag tied up, and of course just had a helper pull in my tail to the same effect
 
dtreez said:
I have yet to set a second rope from the ground.

So far my procedure is to set one rope, ascend to my tie in point, get that situated how I like with a soft 8, set a second tie in close by with some sort of canopy anchor, and go to town.

I have 2 bridges if different lengths on my saddle, each with a ring. One system is connected to each ring.

Typically my plan has been to scramble out to my first redirect, throw one system over that, then work off of both systems, transferring more into the redirected one as needed. I try to work the tree in columns, but this allows me (on a good day) to kind of get two columns with one ascent? That's my hope at least.

Those of you that have tried, do you find swivels to be necessary or helpful?

I also LOVE the Rope Runner classic, but have had a hard time working that, and another system at the same time. The best thing I've found so far has been two hitches.

Has anyone tried two Rope Runners, or a Runner and a hitch? What works for you?

Thank you also, to everyone who's responded.
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I use 2 runners mostly. Sometimes 2 wrenches. Seldom any MRS, except whenI incorporate my tail. Never probs with twisting. I easily am always repositioning one line when I know the moves I need to make. I ascend one line and adjust other to suit, I can easily redirect either to gain required work position. I set both from the ground. Cool to use on wide spreading trees. Did it today, two runners.
 
DSMc said:
I love climbing with two separate systems when needed. Positioning possibilities are tremendous! But it's not something I do as a matter of course as one rope, set properly, works just fine. I tried two bridges for several months and did not feel that the extra bridge added any significant benefits. I trust the strength and robustness of my single bridge as much as my single rope system. If I didn't, adding two wouldn't help.
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I don't disagree with any of your points. I don't use two ropes because I the rope isn't strong enough. The rope itself is probably the strongest, safest part of the system. I use the second bridge because I use two systems and it helps with the angles. I use two ropes because of the "what ifs" I believe should be considered when trying to mitigate any risk. I think the weakest, or most difficult to qualify piece of the systems we climb on is the tree. I like to be anchored to two different parts of the tree. Here are some real world situations where having two systems may have helped:

1. I read an article about a climber in a competition who was using a ring made by a company who also made shower rings. A shower ring was sold as a climbing ring. The ring broke and the climber fell. Defective hardware - second system may have helped.
2. A youtube climber was ascending when his tie-in point broke and he fell. Second system may have helped.
3. August Hunicke says he fell when he unknowingly cut a length off his MRS tail. He was descending, rope ran right through his Blake's hitch and he fell. Second system may have helped.
4. There was an article last year about limb walking with the rope runner pro. A climber fell limb walking when the angle became horizontal enough, and the tail of the rope was not "down" enough. The climber slipped from the branch, and the device didn't grab. Second system may have helped.
5. Another youtube climber was using a lot of rope in a re-direct, and then descended. Rope ran through his hitch hiker and he grabbed it before he fell. Second system may have helped.
6. Another youtube climber had just cut out the top, and only the spar was left after a long day. He secured some type of canopy anchor for SRT to descend, stood up in his picks to release his lanyard, didn't see the anchor pop off the top of the spar, and down he went.
7. Ever have your system freeze, lock or stick with Sap? Descend on your second system.
8. Second line is in the tree if someone needs to rescue you.

Defective hardware, operator error, and tree defects. These risks may be mitigated by a second system.

I don't use it every time. I understand you climbers that have been using a single line for 20 years and know how to safely navigate the risks.
I'm not lobbying for everybody to climb the same. But these are my thoughts behind using it. Thanks
 
@telecasterfool, I also agree with all your examples plus many more that you didn't mention. If the situation feels like 2 ropes might be of assistance, use 2 ropes.

I will point out though, that most of those examples were do to poor planning and as you said, operator error. Getting through the day to day dangers of tree work requires the careful application and balance of what is needed and how it is done. Too much reliance on redundant safety measures when not needed can become burdensome so should be assessed for each situation.

LOL, can you tell I've never been a big fan of over extrapolation on " what ifs".
 
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