Tripple action snaps

jodystreeserv3

jodystreeserv3

Location
central texas
Are the double locking snaps no longer allowed for comp only, or is for everyday working also? I have some old school climbers that still use a closed climbing system and they use the steel snaps for there climbing line and they are double action.
 
as far as I know they are still allowed for work and such...the only ones that seem to be a problem are the isc snaps...just make sure they check them every day to see if there is any "play" in the snap but for you climbing line yea you would think they would like carabiners better
 
so they are using the double action rope snaps to climb off of?? If they are im pretty sure they are allowed for everyday use, I know my boss uses them almost every time he climbs (which is not very often cough cough James Tuttle) but he is real old school when it comes to climbing.
 
I'm using and ISC 2 way right now, I love it, silky smooth:)
but my next lanyard is going to have the DMM captive eye auto-locking carabiner...I am switching to all DMM stuff, i love their krabs :) the best!
 
[ QUOTE ]
If a double action caribeaner isnt allowed for your climbing line why would a double action snap be allowed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the 'actions' are completely different, and because double action snaps were the standard for, oh, 30 or 40 years. Someday they will be outlawed because 2 actions will eventually be proven to be not enough safety factors, but in reality, they are distinctly different from a 2 act carabiner, and should be treated differently.

-Tom
 
ACRT which has the program contract for the Job Corp Urban Forestry training program has been and still uses/issues the old dub-act steel snaps. I understand that they are heavily ANSI Z-133 compliance intent.

But regarding the aluminum ones, it was the ISC snap that had the problems that started the knee-jerk restriction on all aluminum dub-act snaps?

I've been using CAMP dub act snaps for a couple years on both lanyards and climbing.

Are the CAMPs suspect too?

I've never had a problem with unintended openings.
 
I have limited trust of snaps. I had an instance several years ago where a snap opened inadvertently and luck is the only thing that kept me from taking a healthy (or unhealthy rather) swing.

Carabiners are my preference.
 
Re: Triple action snaps

Snaps---carabiners
Double autolock---single autolock
Snap gate---twist gate
Screw links---shackles

There are applications for all of these. With the right training and understanding they can all be interchanged in most applications. Of course, to find one attachment that works for all applications is the Impossible Dream.

There are certain combinations of connections that don't work and have been found to be unacceptable. Years ago single locking snaps were widely used. Until the ring dimensions were changed some workers fell and were killed or injured. To make the snaps more universal and be safer to use with a wider range of loops or d-rings the double locking snap was configured.

Over the years there have been some specific ring/attachment combos that didn't work. If the specifics were known then it would be easy to stay out of the trap. On some harness/dring/loop one particular snap might work perfectly but another manufacturer wouldn't. Until there is an archive of these combos the knee jerk reaction is to not allow anything that looks like the combo.

KS's lack of faith in snaps because of one failure sure isn't argueable. At the same time, other climbers have had biners open and put their lives in jeopardy. So, two switched loyalties but is either any safer?

When something doesn't work go back and replicate and investigate. Decades ago...whew...I had a single locking snap shoe-horn itself off of one of the d-rings of my butt strap harness. For some reason I looked down before leaning back and saw the right d-ring hanging. After loosening my sphincter, catching my breath and reclipping I kept a close eye on the snap for the rest of the climb. That evening i was able to replicate the action that allowed the snapgate to open. End of single locking snaps. Then I went and got steel Stubai screw gate biners. Much safer but I had to monitor the screw gates. Each change brought a new failure point.

Keep your gear clean and lubricated.
Follow manufacturers recommendations.
Check connection points often.
Read TreeBuzz.

Climb on!
 
Re: Triple action snaps

The Triple action snap, currently featured in the TreeBuzz spotlight, (ISC product #SH903) should be available in the US in about 10 days. (Yes, like most things we want badly -- it keeps getting pushed back).

They won't be cheap, at least initially. Looking like they will retail in the $25 to $30 range, depending on the supply house.
 
Hey, guys, this may not be the right thread for this question, but it was the best I could find after searching.

New guy here, just getting into climbing. My question, I guess, is about the regulations/standards used here in the U.S. (ANSI Z 133 I think?) regarding carabiners for arborist work.

Should the carabiners used for life support be triple-locking, or is double-locking OK?

Also, is there any difference between the regs/standards for carabiners used in a lanyard/flipline versus those used in your (life-support) top rope?

Also, in case I have my terminology wrong, here's what I mean:
Double-locking carabiner = twist gate collar against spring (or unscrew), then push open gate against spring.
Triple-locking carabiner = slide gate collar lengthwise against spring, then twist gate collar against spring, then push open gate against spring.
(Please correct me if my terminology is wrong.)

Thanks for any help.

Jeff
 
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Hi Jeff, your terminology isn't wrong, as there are so many different terms that are used to describe what you're talking about. I find it best to distinguish that the last action, opening the gate, isn't a lock, but an action ,or movement. The companies that make carabiners don't use uniform terms, which adds to the confusion.
 
My understanding is that both of your definitions are wrong. There is no difference between double-locking and triple-action. Notice "action" not "locking". Some manufacturers like to use the term triple-action to refer to a double-locking biner, but they are counting opening the gate as the third action. It takes two actions, twist and slide, to unlock the biner before it can be opened. So double-locking biners or triple-action biners are all good.
 
Two distinct motions,befor the gate will open. (Call it what you will) is the ANSI Z133 requirement as well as auto lock in that they will
Return to a lock position when released from any of the opening actions. Add in a rating of 23 kN and you got a good to go connection.

The only exception is that if the carabiner is used in a fall arrest system, (aerial lift) it needs the above ratings as well as a 16kN rating on the gate.

Tony
 
Thanks, fellas. They sure do make this stuff confusing!
So I'm guessing that a "double-action" or "single locking" biner (twist gate collar against spring, then open gate against spring) would not be Z133-compliant...?
 
Correct. Your first post is also correct if you are talking about Camp carabiners. They call a triple action/movements carabiner a triple locker.
 
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