- Location
- St. Paul, MN
No.
treeMOTION
- Thread starter outonalimbtrees
- Start date
- Location
- Norfolk UK
Sorry to jump the thread abit..I,ll go back and read the bits proper but what immediately springs to mind here is that the the manu's are replacing/renewing parts on saddles that appear to wear very quickly. If they were so sheepish about the gear would they not point at the blurb and keep taking the money? I think it must be obvious that climbers need a great deal more from a saddle than 3 months, 6 months or so. I dont find this nearly as shocking as the wait I m faced with to get one..no. What I mean is...what the hell is taking so long ?
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Ive had my Tree Motion 8 momths and I cant see any problems.Im really hard on gear and it seems to be in great shape.Its really comfortable,best saddle Ive ever owned..
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
So if its not ANSI approved why is it legal to where at the comps?Also just wondering are any of the new euro harnesses ansi approved?
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=82097&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Not sure where this thread ended up, but here it is...
Not sure where this thread ended up, but here it is...
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
[ QUOTE ]
So if its not ANSI approved why is it legal to where at the comps?Also just wondering are any of the new euro harnesses ansi approved?
[/ QUOTE ]
This irks me. Three Master's Challenge competitors (two men and one woman) at the 2007 ITCC, who are supposed to be in compliance with the ANSI standards, were not. They wore the TreeMotion saddle and for some reason the gear inspectors passed these "illegal" harnesses. Anyone from the ITCC organization want to illuminate me?
This is not to take anything away from those climbers. I know they could school me any day of the week wearing a rope saddle and sliding a tautline. I just want to know who gets to decide what rules have to be followed and what rules can be ignored.
So if its not ANSI approved why is it legal to where at the comps?Also just wondering are any of the new euro harnesses ansi approved?
[/ QUOTE ]
This irks me. Three Master's Challenge competitors (two men and one woman) at the 2007 ITCC, who are supposed to be in compliance with the ANSI standards, were not. They wore the TreeMotion saddle and for some reason the gear inspectors passed these "illegal" harnesses. Anyone from the ITCC organization want to illuminate me?
This is not to take anything away from those climbers. I know they could school me any day of the week wearing a rope saddle and sliding a tautline. I just want to know who gets to decide what rules have to be followed and what rules can be ignored.
- Location
- Rannoch, Scotland
My guess is that more than half the field in Hawaii were wearing harnesses that didn't meet ANSI. Some of that large number were wearing treeMOTIONs.
One of great things about ITCC is that competitors come from a growing number of countries. A consequence is that ANSI can not (should not) be the dominant standard in that international environment i.e. a wide and educated perspective needs to be adopted by those approving (or otherwise) individual components and systems.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
One of great things about ITCC is that competitors come from a growing number of countries. A consequence is that ANSI can not (should not) be the dominant standard in that international environment i.e. a wide and educated perspective needs to be adopted by those approving (or otherwise) individual components and systems.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
[ QUOTE ]
hrmm, Why doesn't it have a label? Is it because the testing or credidation it would need isn't possible for the makers to get done?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is really just a matter of submitting your product to this one place, giving them a bunch of money, they test it, then you get your stamp.
Pay up, get a stamp. It is that easy. Revenue enhancement.
New Tribe went through this long ago and they were amazed at how
ill-relevant the testing process was.
hrmm, Why doesn't it have a label? Is it because the testing or credidation it would need isn't possible for the makers to get done?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is really just a matter of submitting your product to this one place, giving them a bunch of money, they test it, then you get your stamp.
Pay up, get a stamp. It is that easy. Revenue enhancement.
New Tribe went through this long ago and they were amazed at how
ill-relevant the testing process was.
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that more than half the field in Hawaii were wearing harnesses that didn't meet ANSI. Some of that large number were wearing treeMOTIONs.
One of great things about ITCC is that competitors come from a growing number of countries. A consequence is that ANSI can not (should not) be the dominant standard in that international environment i.e. a wide and educated perspective needs to be adopted by those approving (or otherwise) individual components and systems.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
[/ QUOTE ]
But climbers from all of those different countries have to use gear that meets the standards required by their respective countries, right? Thats why I couldn't use a 22kN carabiner. ANSI specifies 22.5kN, and as ridiculous as that distinction is, I'm an American and have to abide by those standards. ANSI must (or should I say SHALL) be the only standard for climbers who fall under the scope of the American National Standards Institute. Last time I checked, Illinois and New Jersey were in America. The consequence is, there is an inequality built into the gear speck requirements at the ITCC. Some climbers can use a Petzl Ellios helmet. I can't. Some climbers can use a 22kN biner. I can't. Not that I'd beat anyone with any of that other gear, but there seems to be an obvious discrepancy in what gear passes for one climber or the other. In the case of the TreeMotion harness and climbers from the US, the gear inspectors let that piece of kit slide for some reason. I just want to know why?
My guess is that more than half the field in Hawaii were wearing harnesses that didn't meet ANSI. Some of that large number were wearing treeMOTIONs.
One of great things about ITCC is that competitors come from a growing number of countries. A consequence is that ANSI can not (should not) be the dominant standard in that international environment i.e. a wide and educated perspective needs to be adopted by those approving (or otherwise) individual components and systems.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
[/ QUOTE ]
But climbers from all of those different countries have to use gear that meets the standards required by their respective countries, right? Thats why I couldn't use a 22kN carabiner. ANSI specifies 22.5kN, and as ridiculous as that distinction is, I'm an American and have to abide by those standards. ANSI must (or should I say SHALL) be the only standard for climbers who fall under the scope of the American National Standards Institute. Last time I checked, Illinois and New Jersey were in America. The consequence is, there is an inequality built into the gear speck requirements at the ITCC. Some climbers can use a Petzl Ellios helmet. I can't. Some climbers can use a 22kN biner. I can't. Not that I'd beat anyone with any of that other gear, but there seems to be an obvious discrepancy in what gear passes for one climber or the other. In the case of the TreeMotion harness and climbers from the US, the gear inspectors let that piece of kit slide for some reason. I just want to know why?
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
[ QUOTE ]
Pay up, get a stamp. It is that easy. Revenue enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to see the TM price tag with that stamp!
Pay up, get a stamp. It is that easy. Revenue enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to see the TM price tag with that stamp!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
There is no requirement for US manufacturers to submit their products to independent outside testing. They are allowed to do the tests themselves and report the results.
- Location
- Rannoch, Scotland
In the case of a harness (whether obliged or not) I'd be very surprised if manufacturers didn't use third party certification.
Discussion with folk from test houses can be very interesting. The good ones come at the subject from a slightly different (and sometimes unanticipated) angle.
That independent analysis, and the peace of mind that comes from the whole design/test/certify/manufacture/etc process, is useful when it comes to sleeping at night and (heaven forbid) standing in court defending yourself.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
P.S. There can be self certification for CE too.....
Discussion with folk from test houses can be very interesting. The good ones come at the subject from a slightly different (and sometimes unanticipated) angle.
That independent analysis, and the peace of mind that comes from the whole design/test/certify/manufacture/etc process, is useful when it comes to sleeping at night and (heaven forbid) standing in court defending yourself.
Chris
Treemagineers - all for the trees and none for a fall!
P.S. There can be self certification for CE too.....
- Location
- Longmont, CO
I climb every day. I have been monitoring the wear on my TM saddle. Frankly, I'm seeing the wear in the webbing. It concerns me. And I was so excited to get into the saddle that I didn't look at the disclaimer about the life span.: bangtard: Shame one me.
That's it! Time to try out the Petzl Sequoia baby!
That's it! Time to try out the Petzl Sequoia baby!
- Location
- Watertown, WI
I say redesign the harness.... throw the ultra-lightweight out the window, bite the bullet and beef up the webbing thus increasing the lifespan.
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
I spoke to someone at Sherrill today regarding the TreeMotion I've had on backorder since November. I asked if the saddle is ANSI approved or not. She "wasn't sure and would have to get back to me." Haven't heard anything yet. What do you think I'll hear?
Anyways I'm canceling that order. Rob at M&I/Fresco hooked me up with someone who had one on the shelf, and it should be on the way. Thanks, Rob.
So if my saddle isn't ANSI approved, does that mean I can use my 200T with one hand and make cuts without my positioning lanyard? Whew! What a load off my mind.
Anyways I'm canceling that order. Rob at M&I/Fresco hooked me up with someone who had one on the shelf, and it should be on the way. Thanks, Rob.
So if my saddle isn't ANSI approved, does that mean I can use my 200T with one hand and make cuts without my positioning lanyard? Whew! What a load off my mind.
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