Tree removal help

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@ pelorus dont worry. In my ventrue to gain knowledge one thing I realize is there are far easier ways to gain insight into what im trying to accomplish then asking a bunch of tree nerds. I have no intention on posting here again.

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Mr. Greene,

Are you including me as one of the "tree nerds" because I would really appreciate that?
 
I was a lot more immature and didn't have forum etiquette. I'm a bit embarrassed about this..... but I'll drag it out of the past to show you, we all get pissed off when people critique us and especially when you are new to a forum and don't have a "thick forum skin".

Check it out, I even hi-jacked Mark C's thread. I didn't know any better.....

Guys were being pretty nice to me... but sawdust wasn't walking on eggshells with me and I couldn't take it.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15223&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1
 
you all are truely nuts. me, I'm certianly no better. My frustration has turned to laughter at this point.

ratherbclimbing: no secret bud ya I'm still reading for sure. still game for all the b.s. anyone wants to throw my way. Will I ask for help here in the future? Only if I'm just looking to have a pissing match.

pelorus: refuse to comment? guess you couldn't resist. In response to your second to last comment... Better to have one drive blind or take the mask off for him? how simple is that? Indy driver or daily commuter. duh and, this is coming from someone that otherwise strikes me as intelligent.

the xman: yes your drawing and comments are accurate now after that I simply boom down and hack it up into bits worked well with my new rope and added skill set

jomoco: love the song, your like a retard in a room full of bouncy balls keep up the good work bonehead.

bucknut: Just a good guy trying to help based on your last comment...

I dunno why, this maybe only my second post here but on both occasions same drama. I simply ask for help. Only seeking to improve. Yet I get all these fools so concerened about my safety, others safety, worried about the dog next doors safety, moral implications, worries about my feelings. I punch back sadly, most times in anger. No joke this time im just laughing.

Do you guys even read what I'm saying? Should I be wasting keystrokes even typing this? I think yes! Why? At this point it's fun. No matter what perfectly rational comeback I have... true on both threads I have generated. Still all this pointless ramble like a little kid with his hands over his ears chanting pointless ramble as not to hear who is speaking.

What is it with you tree nerds your worse then folks that attend a church just so they can point there fingers at those who do wrong.

If this forum is not to share wisdom, what is it for? I suspect for most that attend this temple. Just for the love of pointing out the wrong doers.

We can take this to page 10 fine with me. I'll have rational comments that will be ignored. Tree nerds will speak about this and that. Lets do the dam thing i'll do my best to adress every ignorant comment one by one.

thanks for being fu**tards in advance
 
Jgreene,

There is nothing wrong with asking for advice when you don't know something, especially in this industry. I have done so many times and value the feedback I have gotten from some of the best in the industry. The difference with your post is that you are trying to do something very dangerous and so far off the mark from standard practice. The fact that it worked is completely inconsequential. Rigging like this will not continue to work and eventually equipment, property and worst case scenario PEOPLE will get hurt or killed. That is the reason you are getting the responses to your query that you are getting. Weather you continue to engage in the "pissing match" or ever post here again just please take from all of this that what you are doing is very dangerous and there are many better, safer ways to do it. Take the time in the future to learn the proper way to piece out a tree and not stick to an improper method that happened to work for you this time.

Ben
 
omfg this thred grew an intire page in the midst of trying to respond? really? sad or funny? you be the judge. As im sure you will.

in responce to the comments I only saw after my last post...

theXman: you have been in my shoes... obviously. You have yet to be unkind that I can recall

ginko: funny, if I was the man to grant you nerdship. It would be granted. You even changed your title. lmao
 
If you truly want to become a Jedi instead of a Seth, then you will have to get your driver's licence before asking others to remove your mask for you as you careen about from one near miss to another.
Do you need to be spoon fed like a baby, or will you make some effort to learn some very basic things on your own?

Tree Climbers Companion. Less than 20 bucks.
 
@bwktreeserv how is what im doing dangerous? no joke. would really like to know. I'm using a rope with an 18k working load not break rating. butt hitching the limb booming down to chunk it up into small parts. Sorry I'm just assuming your "posting before reading". There should be an abreviation for that here sept bull riding beat this forum to it.
 
@pelorus what you fail to comprehend is im going out every day felling trees. right or wrong. I'm waste deep in this business venture there is no turning back! I'm going to drive this car! shall I do it blind? cmon man I told you this crap on my first post.

Lay off the grass...
 
Re. Your former career as. Linesman, was that somewhere like in Mozambique? Or a cable tv linesman mebbe? Cause I dunno any journeyman linesman that doesn't know basic knots, etc.
 
I read the whole thing, a few minutes of my life I will never truly get back. Your right, i'm sure its not dangerous, I don't know what im talking about. Do it your way, i'm sure it will go fine? All I was trying to do was clarify the real problem, what you were doing is not the best method for accomplishing the job. Thats all, good luck to you.

Ben
 
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I'm using a rope with an 18k working load not break rating.

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Formerly used to moor the Costa Concordia.
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@pelorus: once again lineman don't use knots smarta** telco linman btw. as for felling tree's typically out of a bucket as im doing now. starting to think I should retract my comment about you being smart.

@bwktreeserv: that wasn't me being a smart a**. Serious If its properly butt hitched with a good rope, boom down and chunk it up. I honestly don't see the safety concern by all means school me. humbly request the answer
 
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the xman: yes your drawing and comments are accurate now after that I simply boom down and hack it up into bits worked well with my new rope and added skill set



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Okay, thanks, wow.

Your new rope worked today and your better knot tying helped too probably.

BUT it won't work for long.... and that's why I'm glad we are continuing to talk.

This is pretty much the worse abuse you can do to your rope and pretty much any reasonable size rope is NOT going to endure this technique for very long.

I take big stuff (I think) in my rigging, but it is to speed up our day; but we do it safe and very, very rarely, would I allow a short section of rope to catch a dropping weight and shock load that rope.

A limb or log in motion needs to be decelerated slowly. Either by allowing to run a distance or stretch, or preferably BOTH.

The technique you are using, removes both of those things pretty much.

So what does it do?

1. It stretches that very short section of rope.
2. It shock loads not only your rope, but also your tree or tree limb.

What is going to happen?

Well, you already saw it with your old rope.

Your rope will loose it's stretch and fatigue quickly. It might even look new still, but it will snap.
Or, one of these times your limb or trunk will be too thin or have a defect and snap.

You need the piece that you are cutting, to be short enough to give room for a groundperson to let it run and slowly decelerate that force. You need airspace before the ground or object you are avoiding.

To do this, you need to get up higher so that your limbs aren't near the ground simply after hinging over.

Also, you need to use a very long length of rope used IN the system, to absorb and stretch. To do this you need to use a block (pulley) or X-Rigging rings
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and a lowering device or at least wraps on the trunk.

The only time I do what you are doing is when I need to secure the butt of a tree I'm felling so that it doesn't bounce up and hit a house or maybe slide down a hill. In those cases, I use a thick chain or a junk huge bull line that we never use for "in-the-air rigging.

using the technique you are asking about, multiple times a day, is asking for something to break. It's crazy. That's why so many people freaked out about it, because they understood what you were asking.

I was doubting that it was true.

That should only be done in very rare cases.
 
well theXman once agian. One of the few just giving good input. Heard every word you said, read it twice for that matter.

Listen up tree hero's

This is a man that will save lives, not that I belive any of you care about that...

This is Sh** I need to know. thanks brother. you have made it clear why some freak out, I got that. but not one person just spells it out like you do. Your the exeption to all I have said. Every bit of what you said is understood. I will certainly re-evaluate.

shocking a rope too many times, bad cave man shi* and understood and a lesson just the same. I've heard of steel chokers would that be better? I know they exist and have been used. any in's and out's on that matter would be greatfull to ya'
 
here, I don't like "plugging" my own videos in other peoples threads, but here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVZkpSBKnkM

You will see that anything that gets much movement is allowed to "run" and decelerate slowly.

This stops that shock loading (the extreme magnified force from a moving weight being stopped quickly).

Pieces that are tip tied and cranked up do not drop, (to speak of), and therefor do not need to run. you are taking the true weight of the piece and not any magnification of it.

But anything that drops or is hinged over has momentum going and that adds up to be huge quickly. Trying to stop that quickly is going to wear things out or break stuff.



At 5:05 minutes, the butt of that leader did not have room to drop, but the butt didn't go into motion much. The top coming off the other tree did have motion and the very long length of rope added the suspension by stretching.

Watch the whole video and maybe my other ones too. But they are not tutorials, there is so much to learn if you are asking these questions. We all started at the beginning at some time.

If you continue to seek knowledge and can comprehend things, it's going to be amazing for you to look back on this thread in say 3 years.

later,
 
Oh please, it boils down to whether it's safe for a rookie to butt hang half a fair sized tree onto itself from a 40 foot bucket?

The answer is no, anyone who thinks a rope rated at 3100 lbs could possibly do that's a screaming rookie.

As a veteran a hole who hates buckets, even I know a veteran bucketboy could easily accomplish his task with one stinkin 12 foot nylon strap rated at 12 tons, two 3/4 inch shackles, and a modicum of rigging know how.

Heck I've watched a video of the best climbers in Australia do that very thing so their crane could reach it more easily and quickly. Kind of a prior removal jobsite prep before the crane got there.

But this guy ain't experienced enough to pull that off safely by a mile!

The pertinent question is whether trying to make a master rigger out of him online is more dangerous than just giving him the stinkin answer.

As long as he makes a 1/4 face cut first, then rigs that strap and shackles nice and tight before making my finish cut and booming the heck out of that vicinity pronto?

I'm good to go.

Which technique is more dangerous for this rookie X, mine or your's?

jomoco
 
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I've heard of steel chokers would that be better? I know they exist and have been used. any in's and out's on that matter would be greatfull to ya'

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Good question. you are still thinking stronger material; which you need to try to get away from that thought.

a steel choker will be strong and static (not stretch), what this will do is transfer all the energy to your limb or trunk that you are attaching it to. This will cause that limb to break or trunk to break or uproot. I'm not exaggerating, I'm not Mr. Safety for safety sake, I have experience.

The thought you have to get into is: How can I allow that limb or log to go through a good distance of airspace and slow down gradually?
 
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Which technique is more dangerous for this rookie X, mine or your's?

jomoco

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I don't know man....

I got the feeling he's going to keep cutting trees no matter what and if he got pissed off and turned away from getting answers then he would stop trying for answers and no longer seek knowledge. Then... he would just keep doing tree removals and try to learn from himself by noticing mistakes.
Mistakes can and often kill or cripple in this line of work. You are not allowed many.
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Holy crap amazing! xman was that you in that video?

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I am the climber. Yes.

I'm going to bed you all, take care.
 
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