Training/Mentoring my future company leaders.

baumeister said:
Simple. Quotes can be done by either time or money. For me, I can have my guy estimate time and material on site. I put the number for $ together. He does have an idea on hourly cost , however that can vary depending on who the customer is.
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There's a multitude of reasons for varying price. While your fixed and variable costs are the floor in establishing your hrly rate they don't set your margin. There's the staff discounts, family & friends discount, community service pricing, competitive bid price, etc... What I would suggest is to show your standard pricing and then the discounted price. Do this with any sort of price break you use so there's always an understanding of the real value. Spell out what the discount is for in this way, if they share the pricing with someone else it'll include that information or at the least you can reference it when dealing with a referral.
 
More on the ding the rich customer for you Kevin:

As a consulting arborist here in the area, many of my clients can't affort my hourly rate. I charge up to 150 portal to portal for consulting work at times and will travel often over an hour one way to do this. That is at one extreme of the "charge spectrum". On the other hand, Mrs Kleimes who is living off social security and can't afford any tree work at all often calls me for help. She gets a visit from me free of charge ( and I often get a cold beer in a warm basement with a wonderful conversation) She heats her house with firewood that she splits (she is now 80) and I always love visiting her and I love beer :) Anyway, I digress........ The world of consulting arboriculture is very complex. There is no such thing as a set hourly rate that you stick to and period. Your rates should vary to accommodate those less fortunate. So when I am working for a customer who can afford it, they are glad to pay for my services, my professional knowledge, my personal wholistic touch to tree care, my environmentally friendly operating techniques, the latest in tree care equipment and technology, a crew that is well compensated for their work, well outfitted to do the work and well trained to complete the work safetly and efficiently. The hourly rate for that client reflects all of that and is being charged accordingly. Mrs Kleims, well she just gets me on site for a very reasonable rate because I am a sucker for an 80 year old lady who splits her own firewood by hand!! So to answer your question, no, I do not 'ding the rich a bit more'. They pay for the service I provide. However, I do adjust my prices for the poor and those less fortunate. Bidding is not a set calculation of numbers. It involves a personal relationship, an understanding of who you are talking to, trust, a good sharp pencil at times, and at other times a simple daily figure thrown out after a 20 minute converstation. The way I sell my tree work over the year dictates back into what my company can afford to do. More training, more cool tools, the latest in lift technology, work boots, $300 chainsaw pants, a winter of working when the weather permits and spending the inclement days inside the barn training and organizing. If I bid bad, or our work is not efficient, we work through the winter to keep bills paid. Those days are over I hope.

Thanks for the awesome question Kevin, That is a question I have struggle with for a long long time and it feels really good to put it down in words, look at my philosophy and justify what it is I do.
 
baumeister said:
Yes very good question I struggled with this ethically for a long time. I do have a standard hourly rate. I also do work for people less fortunate who can't even afford my hourly rate it is part of my personal and ethical responsibility towards my low income Social Security retired folk. I had a long talk with one of my clients/friends who is a much wealthier person. My basic question was is it fair to charge those who can afford it more?. His simple response was : 'yes, those of us know we may not always be paying the same that those on Social Security pay for services in the area. Most of us are okay with that. We see hiring you above someone else as worth extra cost because of your professional knowledge and your wholistic approach to tree care and the environment. '. I would write more on this later have to switch to a keyboard.
On another note
One job I looked at on a 4 mil property on the lake said he was not going to pay any more than $7000 to remove A giant dead ash tree behind his house.The job was a five figure job easily and to be done safely required a crane. His driveway was only about 2 inches thick and so to bring the crane in was also very difficult and involved him signing a waiver off on his driveway. In the end of course I did not get the job nor did three other tree care companies in the area who bid it at five figures.some idiot came in climbed the tree got it down for $7000. We will always have to deal with that and as far as I'm concerned if the guy wants to go through a bidding war like that to get his tree down it's not a job I am interested in.
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It's just like the customer who gets 3 or 4 different companies out to quote at the exact same time and just says 'so who'll do this the cheapest?'
Sorry if ding offends anyone I just mean price higher
 
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Yes treehumper, very good. I do want to add something important that I learned with that. I did just that for several years in my area. Ironically it backfired on me a bit. I got a reputation of being very expensive. Although at first I was not bothered by this fact I soon realized that is was excluding me from a lot of bid work that I really would have liked to be included on. I have worked very hard over the last two years to change that enigma. I still do a lot of that, but the fact of the matter for me has been that I simply need to show I can be affordable to people, discount or not. So my estimating has become increasingly complex. I can teach the basics to a sales person, but the true complexity of the process I use is something even I would have to spend a very long time to define. I often wonder about that. Another tree estimating veteran once said I did not know how much time it took to do tree work. I took that comment very seriously, because I had a lot of respect for the man. Howevery, until now I never understood why he thought that. Now I realize he was looking at my prices from a standard hourly rate. Hmm I have to go talk to a man about a tree. :tanguero:

Thanks for that revalation treehumper.
 
That's the result of 2 mistakes, first qualifying the client then, the sales person to not clearly state the value proposition of the company. If you're not going to be the cheapest service then you need to ask the questions at the time of the call to be sure you're selling to a receptive client.
 
baumeister said:
Do you do bidding kevin?
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I've doing more and more quotes for a while know the boss is trying to spread the responsibility around between myself the other foreman and our phc foreman.

Large scale bids the boss still handles. While we're still out running crews doing the productive work he has more time to submit insurance, etc. but he has been much more open about sitting down with us for a meeting and we as a group go over how long, how many people, special equipment, etc.
So I'm getting more into it as time goes on but definitely still a ways to go before I turn pro. Trying to get into more cunsulting as time permits but it often is more suited to the boss and phc tech.
 
treehumper said:
That's the result of 2 mistakes, first qualifying the client then, the sales person to not clearly state the value proposition of the company. If you're not going to be the cheapest service then you need to ask the questions at the time of the call to be sure you're selling to a receptive client.
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Humper what steps do you take to qualify clients so you'll deal with them? Usually we get a call or email with a few details and go out for a face to face to see what the actual deal is. Some time pines turn into spruces by the time you get there or there 100' tree shrank 40' overnight I respectfully listen to clients but go out with a very open mind to see what they actually want.
 
'Qualifying' to me anyway involves a brief talk to see they're not just price shopping, or (in my case anyway) that they are not resistant to PHC and just want removals.

If they don't value their assets, there are lots of others who will call em liabilities and take em away!
 

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guymayor said:
'Qualifying' to me anyway involves a brief talk to see they're not just price shopping, or (in my case anyway) that they are not resistant to PHC and just want removals.

If they don't value their assets, there are lots of others who will call em liabilities and take em away!
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But what if they want a removal
 
How do you know they're your kind of client? What qualities do you seek? If you are not the lowest cost operator out there then you better know what their key to choosing a service is. Price can still be a key factor but not the only one.
We have a pretty clear idea of what our customers are; people who value their trees and property and are concerned about who comes onto their property. They have an idea of what they want but are seeking someone to help them with the decision. When do they want the work done? Who will be making the decision? Have they had other treework performed before? By whom? How do they see their trees, asset or liability? Are they getting multiple bids? From which companies? We always tell them we're not the cheapest.

As for wanting a removal? The question is why. You'll very quickly get a sense of their mindset by the reason they state. Are they afraid it's too big, too close, they have kids who play near it, etc...
You may even be so bold as to ask them, In having this tree removed what's the most important factor in making your decision?
 
treehumper said:
How do you know they're your kind of client? What qualities do you seek? If you are not the lowest cost operator out there then you better know what their key to choosing a service is. Price can still be a key factor but not the only one.
We have a pretty clear idea of what our customers are; people who value their trees and property and are concerned about who comes onto their property. They have an idea of what they want but are seeking someone to help them with the decision. When do they want the work done? Who will be making the decision? Have they had other treework performed before? By whom? How do they see their trees, asset or liability? Are they getting multiple bids? From which companies? We always tell them we're not the cheapest.

As for wanting a removal? The question is why. You'll very quickly get a sense of their mindset by the reason they state. Are they afraid it's too big, too close, they have kids who play near it, etc...
You may even be so bold as to ask them, In having this tree removed what's the most important factor in making your decision?
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I'm all for getting the story but do you get all this figured out before you ever meet them? Is this on your receptionists? We're not low ballers and we have good clients but new clients come and go all the time.

Working with clients I'm all for but qualifying? Do they fill out there questionnaire before you ever talk to them?

Pruning and saving trees I'm all for but there is lots of reasons for removal additions on houses eab etc
 
It's usually a phone call. It's easier that way and can be incorporated into the call to arrange the appt. Not the receptionists job, its on the sales person. Some of this can be figured out before you meet depending on how open they are on the phone. Listening to how they talk is as much if not more valuable than what the say. Whatever you do, don't make it sound like a questionnaire!

We had to figure out what our ideal client looks like. Then gear the questions we ask to uncover that. It's all in the delivery of the question too. In getting the details from the client, questions can be interjected in a way that sound like its part of the conversation. Keep it casual and be interested in learning more about the people you'll be talking to. We tend to generalize and refer to them all as H.O.s instead of finding out who they are.

Even on site, continue to qualify them. The more you can get out of them about who they are the better you'll be able to relate to them. Even to the extent of not giving them a price as you're not the right person for the job.

Selling is an art and a science, take some courses in it.
 
"But what if they want a removal?" Good question. treehumper's right on the money; you gotta see through their initial words and find out what motivates them.

What if they want a topping, or fertilizing a tree with fungal problems, or cabling a Ficus carica with big throughbolts and chain(which I just saw yesterday)?

You'd try to educate them, right? If they want to remove a tree because it's too big, or makes litter, or the roots are messing up the lawn, wouldn't you try to educate them about reduction pruning, or mulching? To comply with the ANSI A300 Standard (or the superior UK and German standards), "the arborist SHALL establish the objective" by hearing the owner's goals, considering arboriculture, and describing reasonable tree care treatments, one of which may be removal.

If you don't want to comply with A300, you can accept the owner's goal, and not think about establishing the objective. Technical rigging is such a rush, immediate gratification, booyah. Big machines have big payments, so that big check today can look better than many checks over a lifetime. All true; hard to resist. Your call.
 
guymayor said:
"But what if they want a removal?" Good question. treehumper's right on the money; you gotta see through their initial words and find out what motivates them.

What if they want a topping, or fertilizing a tree with fungal problems, or cabling a Ficus carica with big throughbolts and chain(which I just saw yesterday)?

You'd try to educate them, right? If they want to remove a tree because it's too big, or makes litter, or the roots are messing up the lawn, wouldn't you try to educate them about reduction pruning, or mulching? To comply with the ANSI A300 Standard (or the superior UK and German standards), "the arborist SHALL establish the objective" by hearing the owner's goals, considering arboriculture, and describing reasonable tree care treatments, one of which may be removal.

If you don't want to comply with A300, you can accept the owner's goal, and not think about establishing the objective. Technical rigging is such a rush, immediate gratification, booyah. Big machines have big payments, so that big check today can look better than many checks over a lifetime. All true; hard to resist. Your call.
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We offer as many solutions as we can most times but sometimes people are hard set on removal for whatever there reasons, they want it gone period. So if we keep 'pestering' for some other solution and they just want it gone we lose the job and the stumping and the possible re-planting and the ferting and .......

If they want 'a topping, or fertilizing a tree with fungal problems, or cabling a Ficus carica with big throughbolts and chain(which I just saw yesterday)?' Then we would be talking about those because they'd say how can we save my tree not just make it go away.
 
Listen to th; " In getting the details from the client, questions can be interjected in a way that sound like its part of the conversation. Keep it casual and be interested in learning more about the people you'll be talking to." Conscious conversation, learning what motivates them, can reveal what extra services they may be open to elsewhere in their yard, or not, so your time as a salesman is best spent.
Every company has potential add-on services besides grinding stumps after removals, so salesmen are most productive when their paradigm is the entire landscape, over time, and the HO is a complex human, not just someone who is scared/tired of a tree.

The opposite of pestering is briefly but comprehensively describing tree benefits and ways they can be enhanced. If a company or salesman is oriented toward vegetation management and wants to skip this step that's their business, as long as they don't misrepresent the facts.
 
Kevin, move away from the concept that you're "pestering". It's all a part of active listening and more so, professionalism, we are dealing with complex living entities, both in the form of the trees and the ecosystem they exist in and the human that is their steward. We differ from tree hacks by being arborists. Here's another way in which you can qualify your clients before they call; how you advertise and market your company. Do you emphasize your knowledge (Certifications, training, etc..) or do you emphasize your price (AAAAAA Cheap Tree Service, LLC.). Here's a good question to ask when someone calls, Where did you find us or what was it about us that appealed to you? Track the answers. It helps to know what mediums are working best for you and if you're getting the message out clearly.
 
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