Topping dead firs

Avatar is from the collective unconscious...or something like that.

May not be the best cut if you are worried about the wiggle factor on brittle hingewood that you are tethered to.

The benefit is in falling pecker pole trees, being able to drive the wedge clean through into the face, thus allowing for better lift as the wedge doesn't bottom out at the back of the hinge in the backcut. I thought this might have a place in topping firs in the manner you are doing them here. Given the brittleness of the hingewood, by clearing a borecut through it, you might initiate a premature hinge break, but then again it might allow you to set your wedge quicker.

Has a place in felling small trees. You see, you are cutting away on either side of a post, and wedging up the post...so the best thing about it is that you are cutting even whilst the wedge is a few taps further in than possible with a conventional backcut and you are not cutting anywhere near your wedges!

You could be finishing the cut with one hand and tapping through with mallet in the other.
 
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Avatar is from the collective unconscious...or something like that.

May not be the best cut if you are worried about the wiggle factor on brittle hingewood that you are tethered to.

The benefit is in falling pecker pole trees, being able to drive the wedge clean through into the face, thus allowing for better lift as the wedge doesn't bottom out at the back of the hinge in the backcut. I thought this might have a place in topping firs in the manner you are doing them here. Given the brittleness of the hingewood, by clearing a borecut through it, you might initiate a premature hinge break, but then again it might allow you to set your wedge quicker.

Has a place in felling small trees. You see, you are cutting away on either side of a post, and wedging up the post...so the best thing about it is that you are cutting even whilst the wedge is a few taps further in than possible with a conventional backcut and you are not cutting anywhere near your wedges!

You could be finishing the cut with one hand and tapping through with mallet in the other.

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Thanks Ward

Im familar with the technique, but have never used it to be honest.

What I was getting at is if you're cutting say a 15in 30-40ft dead top, I dont think you should be in front trying to gut the face. Not just because you're further weakening an already weak hinge, but further more that its not a great position to put yourself in.

As for falling small tree's on the ground. Again, ought you be weakening your hinge in such a way. Lets say its skinny, and tall, maybe a slight lean to one side, or maybe a lean you cant quite be certain of. Should you still be gutting your hinge?

You can avoid your wedges clashing with your chain by making using two back-cuts; one on either side with some over lap in the middle. You obviously make one cut, put the wedge in then the other cut either above or below.....only you dont loose any of the hinge wood. I'm sure you're well familiar with the techniques already. Wedges will still stack pretty firm in skinny trees too, for extra lift.

Tongue and groove cut. I know it works, but is it worth it?
 
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Reg, what designates where to stop climbing and start to cut?

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Lots of things I suppose. How much room you have to land it; the chances of it getting hung up in a neighboring tree; the extent or worsening of decay as you progress upwards.
 
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What I was getting at is if you're cutting say a 15in 30-40ft dead top, I dont think you should be in front trying to gut the face. Not just because you're further weakening an already weak hinge, but further more that its not a great position to put yourself in.

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Since you don't have the backcut made until after the bore cut, you still have substantial holding wood. But I agree, I haven't done this for a good reason as it seems pretty sketchy on rotting firs. A loss of 4" of hinge on a 16" dbh green fir is not a big loss, but on a dead top....perhaps not. But, again, don't you have a problem with losing wedges and having the top flop around above you even while you have pulled your saw out of the cut...thats a point you mention in your video and I don't think even you recognize a satisfactory answer. I guess there's always walking away when its too sketchy. $100 a fir is not worth it. Better get a tag line into the tops at that point, imho.

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As for falling small tree's on the ground. Again, ought you be weakening your hinge in such a way. Lets say its skinny, and tall, maybe a slight lean to one side, or maybe a lean you cant quite be certain of. Should you still be gutting your hinge?

Tongue and groove cut. I know it works, but is it worth it?

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Works like a charm on straight timber. What else can I say. Enjoy.
 
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What I was getting at is if you're cutting say a 15in 30-40ft dead top, I dont think you should be in front trying to gut the face. Not just because you're further weakening an already weak hinge, but further more that its not a great position to put yourself in.

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Since you don't have the backcut made until after the bore cut, you still have substantial holding wood. But I agree, I haven't done this for a good reason as it seems pretty sketchy on rotting firs. A loss of 4" of hinge on a 16" dbh green fir is not a big loss, but on a dead top....perhaps not. But, again, don't you have a problem with losing wedges and having the top flop around above you even while you have pulled your saw out of the cut...thats a point you mention in your video and I don't think even you recognize a satisfactory answer. I guess there's always walking away when its too sketchy. $100 a fir is not worth it. Better get a tag line into the tops at that point, imho.

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As for falling small tree's on the ground. Again, ought you be weakening your hinge in such a way. Lets say its skinny, and tall, maybe a slight lean to one side, or maybe a lean you cant quite be certain of. Should you still be gutting your hinge?

Tongue and groove cut. I know it works, but is it worth it?

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Works like a charm on straight timber. What else can I say. Enjoy.

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I never said I lost a wedge Ward....just that I carry several, in case.

See, here's a 50ft top, dead but still solid tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj1tvqeIps8

Here's a smaller top but a tree of about 170, in decline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMIy9b3-vQ

Couldn't imagine bore cutting either somehow, live or dead.

Tag lines have their place, definitely.... but especially in the bush and way up high, they just seem to be last choice for whatever reasons.

I like chatting with you Ward, because you have strong opinions. I'm just not sold on the tongue and groove for much at all. Seems like extra cutting for a result I'm gonna achieve just as easy with more conventional cutting and wedging.

So your avatar was not taken here at the museum in Victoria ?
 
Its all good Reg, some good points made. As I mentioned, I've never used the tongue and groove while aloft and it has a lot of drawbacks in this scenario. Just thought I'd contribute something relevant to this scenario. We can learn even by challenging ideas and setting them aside--and its even better for the larger Buzzer group to hear these discussions. Great work, Reg, and your comments are appreciated in this dialogue.
 
Not my most masculine posture there but the same scene is it not Ward?
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Reg,

Thats a nice Natural History Museum you have there in Victoria. I was there a few years ago for a salmon fishing foray out to Sooke. We went 2/2 and enjoyed the museum. Feels like going to Europe whenever I go over into BC.
 
Not the most masculine...you have a wooly mammoth ready to step on you, and you look cool as a cucumber. A hazard tree climber's nerves for sure.
 
For everyone who is watching this video or has watched this video, dead grand firs are about as dangerous of a tree as it gets. I live on a piece of property with 85 acres of a 50/50 mix of Douglas fir and grand fir. Our forest has a fungal disease that is slowly killing all of the grand firs. Year 1 they lose their needles, year 2 they get the sap rot fruiting bodies, year 3 they lose their bark, year 4 if they haven't fallen over yet from the roots rotting, the base decays extensively and the woodpeckers turn it into something resembling Swiss cheese. The wobble Reg is talking about is no joke. Just putting a wedge into the bases of these things is enough to make it look like the top is going to fall off. Climbing them just about makes you sick if you look up.

Reg-

I finally was somewhere with a good internet connection and watched your video. I know realize the real reason you invented the Stein brush cart. It is really to carry your balls around on. As someone who has a lot of experience with the type of trees you are climbing I have a few things to suggest:

1. Life insurance
2. Charge more. What ever you are charging isn't enough.
3. If you don't already, spend a s@%& load of time with your wife and daughter.

I also had a few questions. Why didn't you tie into the adjacent live trees when a few times they were so close? Was it the time pressure? Personally I would rather tie into a 4" live tree top than a 12" dead one. What I do at times is tip toe up the dead tree to the top. I carry my throwball cube up with me and throw a line through an adjacent top and have the ground crew tie on a climbing line and then tie it off so I can use it to anchor a false crotch on or just work off of it SRT.

Stay safe up there.

Ryan
 
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I also had a few questions. Why didn't you tie into the adjacent live trees when a few times they were so close? Was it the time pressure? Personally I would rather tie into a 4" live tree top than a 12" dead one. What I do at times is tip toe up the dead tree to the top. I carry my throwball cube up with me and throw a line through an adjacent top and have the ground crew tie on a climbing line and then tie it off so I can use it to anchor a false crotch on or just work off of it SRT.


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There was actually nothing quite suitable to tie into Ryan, in spite of how it might have appeared. The first tree, which was the worst of the bunch had a smaller tree to the left of the screen but was slightly further forward than the one I was topping. The weight was actually favoured that way so I couldn't risk the top catching or falling on my line.

I do keep an eye out for remote tie-ins, but I also pay close attention to the initial climb, see how it feels as I progress.

Time is always an issue, yes i.e. I didn't actually get up that tree till after 6, by the time I'd done a couple of others on site. Now I could've timed out at that point and and there would've been no questioned asked....but then Ive got a bigger worry that another climber gets sent back the next day, misses something that I might have picked up on and gets killed. So yeah, it shouldn't be my problem, but it becomes my problem. Thats the thing (as you know) with the contract climbing....you're often booked with different companies each day, so are not always available to see a job through to the finish.
 
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I think on that first top the steel core was used as a single tie in, I didn't notice a climb line.

Neat pic, cute kid.

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The second tie in was about 10 ft down, on the cedar below me.
 
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Ah the old, if all else fails tie in. Would love to see a fall test of that! Especially with spurs, a saw, and the top coming down too!

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Ryan, I am not sure where you are coming from. What do you mean?

Tony
 
I actually fell over with a dead pine once. I thought all I need is ten feet to clear a fence. Got a throw line on the top, climbed to ten feet, made a notch, back cut, told co-worker to give a steady pull and he pulled the whole tree over. As Providence would have it, the tree was caught in one of the only other trees close by. I have a healthy fear of dead trees now.
 
the person that brought me into the industry died from a little hemlock. 27' and took a small top about 4". There was too much rot in the base and the whole tree came down from the swing of the top.. He landed in the road by only 3 to 4 feet, other wise he would have landed in a soft grassy ditch. all of yall be safe
 
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