thoughts on the tapered hinge...

Just look at a hinge on a door. Its straight and level. Doesn't work so good if it gets bent out of shape.

Also check out the fibers in the hinge after a fell and you'll see a straight line where the fibers stopped breaking and bent instead.
 
I like to use the door hinge anaology when I teach the basic hiunge concept to a complete newbie. as long as that hinge stays in tact the door must shut on a prescribed path.

That's about it though.. A tree is not a door and there are a lot of factors that will determine what makes a hinge good. A door doesn't have thousands of pounds of force trying to rip it off its hinges! A good hinge on one tree could get you killed on another. So it all depends. Those of us that have transcneded the rules operate with a higher understanding of the many factors that make a hinge "good" and the abilities and limitations involved. You lessers need your rules.. You love your rules becasue they keep you in your safe little boxes.. (tongue in cheek) LOL
 
I am really sick and tired of ArborMaster trainers saying that the tapered hinge does not work. When used correctly, it works great, especially when combined with the Adjusted Gun Technique that they teach.

How many of them actually have experience logging in the woods? I come from a logging background. Most advanced logging felling classes today, teach according to the GOL (Game Of Logging) techniques, which ArborMaster uses (but does not give them credit for). These loggers use and teach the adjusted gun and 10% hinge width all the way across as does ArborMaster, but at least most of the loggers have an open mind and know that the tapered hinge has it’s place in certain felling applications as well.

Daniel has many good points in his above posts and if you haven’t read his article in TCI about the tapered hinge, as well as the very lengthy discussion that we had here years ago on it, you should check it out.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the input...my guys were questioning my credibility today after attending this seminar. My guys are still green, however, and have a lot to learn--yet, I will still make the tapered hinge part of their training. I would like to see more research done on this subject in the future.
 
I like that technique Tarzan. I will give that a try. From my GOL lessons 10% was a MINIMUM hinge thickness. Not a standard, across the boards, one size fits all hinge thickness. I do not care for the taper hinge technique myself. WHat I have found that works well for me is offset boring the face of the hinge and leaving the overall hinge thicker depending on severity of side lean. By offsetting the bore on my hinge to the compression side of the hinge, I make it easier to wedge the thing over but still leave all the tension wood where it matters. I leave enough on the compression side to stay intact to make it help steer the tree as intended. I have not found a magic calculation to use when allowing extra hinge thickness/ amount of side lean ratio. SO much of that depends on what wood you are felling. I can leave much less on a hickory as opposed to the say the same size dbh ailanthius may need 3x more hinge thickness to get thesame result. SO much of this felling is knowing your wood, it's internal condition, and how hard it's leaning.
 
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All good points!

Tarzantree I like the pix and the explanation. Interesting technique. From your experience are you actually changing direction from hinge thickness or gravity? Would your cut work the same (most things being equal) if the hinge went without a taper?

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Experience of knowing how much hinge to have there is how I did it :) A fatter pull side hinge most of the time for me with leaners...All learned falling big west coast timber. That cut definitely works better with a fatter hinge on the tension side.

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I liked Tarzantree's technique. It looks to be designed to break the compression side hinge after falling about 30 degrees, with the tension side still holding until its closer to the ground.

I wonder about the line formed by the sizwheel piece and the humboldt facecut that the trunk would rock of off. What happens if that line is changed in relation to the lay?

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Exactly what it was supposed to do. Works real good with a dutchman too. Sometimes different angled dutchmans depending on the tree. As far as the line...all that matters is where you have the tree gunned initially...and of course, lean, tree type, butt defect affecting where holding wood can be placed, wind, and luck sometimes. It all depends on how much action you want out of the hinge wood. Sometimes I cut a real thin sizwheel. No pics of my own of one, but I found one on a friends site.
180776_194590867227447_100000296049341_674398_5674221_n.jpg


Here he is putting one in a nice heavy leaner fir.
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So basically, the sizwheel just helps utilize more holding wood. Same reason a square humboldt is used a lot of times on big redwood...cuz they are very brittle on the stump and like to break prematurely when the undercut is compressing:
26753_368593704843_355234984843_3534537_3088199_n.jpg

26753_368593844843_355234984843_3534549_3427264_n.jpg


Also, just to clarify again...this all works great in the mountains but, I always use MY best judgement with a heavy leaner over a nice house, if I think there is even a slight chance of the holding wood not holding, usually I will climb and take out weight, or tie a tag line if possible. :)
 
After think ing about what Zeb said about a "straight" hinge functioning better, I had the thought of trying this exact technique.. You could keep the hinge straight and leave a lot more hinge fiber on the tensioned side by gutting the hinge out on the compression side.. Makes a lot of sense.. Probably not needed on 90+% of the tapered hinges cut, but might be just perfect for the occasional tree, where you are pushing the limits. For those, I like to use a right angle retainer line, left loose, as a back up. That way I can watch the line to see if it ever gets tight. If it does the hinge failed.. if not the hinge held.. nice to have the insurance so experiments can be done, even when there is some risk involved..

Thanks... Now we're talking!



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I like that technique Tarzan. I will give that a try. From my GOL lessons 10% was a MINIMUM hinge thickness. Not a standard, across the boards, one size fits all hinge thickness. I do not care for the taper hinge technique myself. WHat I have found that works well for me is offset boring the face of the hinge and leaving the overall hinge thicker depending on severity of side lean. By offsetting the bore on my hinge to the compression side of the hinge, I make it easier to wedge the thing over but still leave all the tension wood where it matters. I leave enough on the compression side to stay intact to make it help steer the tree as intended. I have not found a magic calculation to use when allowing extra hinge thickness/ amount of side lean ratio. SO much of that depends on what wood you are felling. I can leave much less on a hickory as opposed to the say the same size dbh ailanthius may need 3x more hinge thickness to get thesame result. SO much of this felling is knowing your wood, it's internal condition, and how hard it's leaning.

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hey daniel, just shut up, because every time i read something of yours I just have to skip over it. Whether good or bad, I just skip because of your reputation.

hey Utlarb4trees, direct your guys to this forum. Good for you for challenging the teachers.
 
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Also, just to clarify again...this all works great in the mountains but, I always use MY best judgement with a heavy leaner over a nice house, if I think there is even a slight chance of the holding wood not holding, usually I will climb and take out weight, or tie a tag line if possible. :)

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Exactly. We called my Grandpa - Tarzan, or Tarz for short, BTW.

I came up through the ArborMaster programs and I think some folks are hearing what they say incorrectly. ArborMaster, and now the training organizations, ACT&E and NATS, are helping to train lots of tree workers across NA and elsewhere. I have never heard an instructor say that its always this way or that way. What we have always taught though, is the Why we do things this way principals. Everyone knows ArborMaster always uses the open face hinge, right? Wrong. We use the notch that works best for the situation. Can you steer a tree with a tapered hinge? Sure. Is it the best way to land a tree in an exact spot? Maybe, but there are other ways to get the tree where you want it, 100% of the time. I have never taught a class where I wanted people to walk away thinking that we have the end all be all answer to every situation. However, we do want people to walk away knowing a little bit more about the way to, above all other things, safely work with trees.

I've watched guys turn trees lots of times, with a lot of different methods. Some of these guys are amazing to watch. But one thing I have always seen while they are getting a leaner to turn a bit is that they are right there next to the stump. If there is a barber chair, or fibers pulling down into the roots, or a loose branch falling out of the canopy, they are in exactly the wrong spot. There are many aspects to this job that places us in danger, so anything we can do to keep greater control when dealing with irrefutable forces, like gravity, has got to be a good thing.

Too many of the men in our industry dismiss the idea that you can learn something new at a seminar or class. I hear it all the time, "I've been felling trees for years. I really don't think you can teach me anything I don't already know." Some kind of unspoken message that this "book learning" is all fine and good, but real men put the tree on the ground facing backwards, with one eye closed, and a hand tied behind their back.

Just check out the stumps when you finish a felling cut. There is a straight line of very closely cropped fiber indicating where the perfect hinge would be for that tree. The tapered hinge will work, most of the time, but it comes at the cost of giving up some control.

Use the best method or technique available and don't be afraid to learn something different. If you really want to understand more of this go take one of the 2 day felling courses taught by AM, ACTE or NATS. I guarantee you'll come away with more than you can imagine.
 
Ken Palmer looked me in the face and said the tapered hinge did not offer any additional control on side leaning trees.. that was 2004 in Pittsburg at the ISA international symposium. He didn't say there are other ways to get the same effect. He said it doesn't work! And his scientist associates in Germany had shown it.

I walk away from the majority of my falling cuts, and stand well away from danger before the tree starts to move, which can be done very well with or without a tapered hinge.

And I agree that different species react very differently to the tapered hinge. Wild cherries can take a huge taper, which seems amazing at first.. Knowing how each species will respond will help the faller fine tune his cuts. In the end it comes down to having 100% confidence in your cut. If you don't have that, then you need to find another way to get the tree down. You are only going to get that by experimenting with it, and you're not going to do that if you listen to arbormaster!

The original title of the TCI mag article was "Greater falling accuracy AND CONFIDENCE using the tapered hinge". The editors cut the "and confidence", which I didn't like. IMO the tapered hinge offers a degree of confidence that simply cannot be matched with the adjusted gun, in trees growing in temperate climates. And that confidence is crucial in getting big trees down that would otherwise need to be rigged or craned out. To me, that is the REAL safety benefit of this technique.
 
Good explanation, clearly stated and illustrated. I respect your skill and experience. I understand your hesitancy to post in a public form on these matters. SO much heat SO little light.


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Also, just to clarify again...this all works great in the mountains but, I always use MY best judgement with a heavy leaner over a nice house, if I think there is even a slight chance of the holding wood not holding, usually I will climb and take out weight, or tie a tag line if possible. :)

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There is wisdom in this statement and the best lesson to take from this post.

Thanx for the reply,

Tony
 
Thanks Dave...and everyone else
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We all have skills to share on here, and unfortunately, like I have stated, most of the time these timber falling skills that I have to share should not be utilized, UNLESS there is room for error, or in combination with rigging lines, or climbing and falling a spar that has had the heavy top weight removed. Glad that I get to share something on here cuz I take plenty...especially from you Dave :) Hopefully someday I will be as proficient at climbing and rigging as I am at falling timber...
 
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Thanks Dave...and everyone else
smile.gif
We all have skills to share on here, and unfortunately, like I have stated, most of the time these timber falling skills that I have to share should not be utilized, UNLESS there is room for error, or in combination with rigging lines, or climbing and falling a spar that has had the heavy top weight removed. Glad that I get to share something on here cuz I take plenty...especially from you Dave :) Hopefully someday I will be as proficient at climbing and rigging as I am at falling timber...

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I think you have to give people credit and trust that if you do a fair job of explaining the technique, its benefits, risks, and limitations, they will have sense enough to apply it when it is safe to do so or leave it alone if it is beyond them..

Its cool to watch techniques like the soft dutchman on youtube, but I'll probably never try it.. however understanding the concepts of complex falling techniques can help with a fuller understanding of the stuff we do use on occasion.

I just used a partial snipe on narrow humboldt, taking a 40' top out that was going to hang up a bit.. Might be the only time in a year or more that I need the cut, but it kept me safe last week! Thanks for sharing.. keep it coming!
 
For me, treework is in the same category as bumble bees flying – science can’t figure it out either.

Tapered hinges work with the right conditions, as do all arborist's "tools". Add a multi-angled notch to the "thin" side and you can "walk" a tree, lead or even a length of log better than 45 degrees off lean. No scientific study told me that. 19 years of cutting trees does. And it’s also taught me that not all tools are for all arborists so be careful what you teach to who.

With that, taper hinges don't replace mechanical advantage and proper felling techniques in Line Clearance. Tapered hinges have their place more in logging, land clearing and in some instances, private work where there is a gray area to success. Let me explain that gray area comment; you can butt hinge a top over a house and brush the roof and there's no harm done, do that mid-span on bare 3 phase 13.2kv and you have a 2700 degree fire ball and 4500 customers in the dark.

It is in my opinion, having done both over the past 30 years that Rigging for Line Clearance requires more technical perfection than Rigging for Residential.

This is a great topic for a round table discussion, James. Are you coming to the ArborMaster Module when we get it off the ground? I see opportunities for some excellent after training conversations.
 
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