The problem with tip tying

Yeah, I’ve seen that one before. Pretty bad. I thought for sure he was badly injured.

No idea how you walk away from that, much less come back for more.

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If you can't be smart, you should be tough.
That was a serious smack across the whole top half of his body, and a substantial fall to boot. I wouldn't want to have to fight him.
 
Well dude is hammering some adderall. Or some such for depression. Might be masking pain.
I wondered about that as I think it may be illegal to drive on that stuff here. And if it is not good for driving I can't imagine it is good for tree work.

Although a large part of the population seems to be driving around on it anyway.
 
I have just watched a few of Human's vids. He is very confident, but lacks skill set. Some good cutting at times but some awful cuts also. Trees he is doing look straightforward but he is overthinking. Lots of room IMHO. This guy cut himself out a tree if I remember. Maybe TIP broke. Well he should not be training that guy in a tree he is removing. The gent was not sure on gaffs. And after nearly hitting him laughs. 5 feet miss he says. He scared the dude. Brian should not be in tree period. His voice can be super irritating too. Aw well takes all kinds. Stay safe Human. These mistakes you need to learn from. Slow down and think. Oh he also seems to love cutting through his hinges.
Glad someone’s on the same page after watching his horrendous videos, anyone following him and watching his videos and trying to copy his work should think again, he should have a disclaimer at the start of his videos. Nothing personal against Human, but after his accidents and several near misses, I think he’s better off on the ground or gets some professional training. That guy in the videos absolutely nuts being in the same tree as him. I sure wouldn’t be in the same yard as him doing a removal. Anyways guys watch @August Hunicke or @Reg videos on tree work not Humans please! Your life will thank you later
 
Funny how its more often the case that there is a disclaimer on good techniques from competent people, than bad techniques and incompetent people.
And Sean this dude has a huge following. I find it daunting to say the least. Wish Gerry Barenek's climbing series would hit youtube and save some young climbers a lot of pain rifling through the snot on youtube.
 

It's so important to analyze every mistake, no matter how minor and learn from it. That's a huge safety factor and one of the best things about video. It allows us to review exactly what happened, often in slow motion. I've watched a lot of your videos and have been mightily impressed at how fast you developed as a climber, faller, rigger. That said, I would invite you to change your attitude. You dismiss your mistakes regularly, losing valuable opportunities to learn and improve.

We all make mistakes. I curse mine and feel so bad about even the little ones, then review them over and over until some way to make sure it doesn't happen again becomes clear.

There was zero reason to tip the limb at 5:24. That monster walnut limb you tip tied in the "near death" video helicoptered around the tree and came 6" away from killing you, 100% DEAD! What did you learn from that? Apparently not!!! If you had but tied the piece at 5:24, it would have swung down and away. There was plenty of room. So why did you tip tie it? That's the question you need to ask yourself if you are going to learn anything here.

It was clearly close enough to scare the other climber. You could hear it in his voice when he called for the goundie to let the piece run. That's a helpless feeling. Then when he was trying to say so in a nice way, rather than apologize and try to learn from it , you just laughed, justified it, and dismissed his concern for safety. While there are no physical consequences to that near miss, there are definitely mental consequences.

It's like a groundie that stands just a little too close to the drop zone. He may in fact be safe, but if the you have to think about it, for even a second before making the cut, it throws your concentration off. Now Brian's fight or flight response has been triggered and he's thinking about you, should he be up there with you?, is he safe? what will you do next?... Perhaps all very subtle thoughts in the back of his mind, but enough to throw off his concentration
WTF I agree. When I do a tip tie I intend to stand the piece up into the lowering point then cut the butt free usually with a GRCS. Tip tying a piece of wood then just cutting it and letting it fly shows a lack of understanding. When done right a tip tied piece should come off very smooth. Furthermore letting a tip tied piece run creates a wonky swing/drop. 2 guys in a tree during a removal is asking for trouble and generally inefficient because you are putting down brush quicker than the ground can keep up with and makes the ground very dangerous with two guys dropping wood/brush. If its a cut and leave maybe. This all seems very basic. We all make mistakes but this is 1st year climber mistake and then to not quickly realize it and admit it sounded dumb.
 
Was the setup in the video goofy? Yes. Was he unnecessarily callous about scaring that kid? Yes. Was there some actual chance of harm coming to him? Yes (Although fairly slim. Argue it if you want, but five feet is a mile. I wasn't in the tree and wasn't using the rigging point so that I could see how everything was going up to that point, and I honestly skipped forward to the juicy part.)
Was it unnecessary to have two climbers in that tree? Yes.
I like trial by fire as much as the next guy, and that is not how I would do it.
Now to play devil's advocate.
Is it ever necessary to have two climbers in a tree? No.
Necessity doesn't dictate the majority of my actions, even in a tree.
My rope man would have dropped it and it would have looked much smoother.
There are all kinds of situations where I might set up a tip tie on either a vertical or horizontal limb when I'm not going to suck it all the way around to the rigging point. Usually a near mid tie accomplishes the same thing in those situations, but it might not always.

I'd like to go play in some trees with Human. He generally has a positive attitude, I've seen him own a few mistakes, and he has got balls.
I can work with that.
As long as he is the sort of person who absorbs the words that I say.
 
Yeah, he seems a likeable guy, and I gotta admire that he does more than just take responsibility for mistakes. He puts those mistakes up for the world to see and maybe learn from.
Hope he continues to work and learn without further injuries.

I've worked sprawling trees with another climber a few times, there's a time and place for it, but can't say it was absolutely necessary. Just faster.
 
Of course his technique was a lot better than this guys.....PS Before anyone watches, I would never post this except the guy by the grace of God was able to return and finish the job the next day.

Was the setup in the video goofy? Yes. Was he unnecessarily callous about scaring that kid? Yes. Was there some actual chance of harm coming to him? Yes (Although fairly slim. Argue it if you want, but five feet is a mile. I wasn't in the tree and wasn't using the rigging point so that I could see how everything was going up to that point, and I honestly skipped forward to the juicy part.)
Was it unnecessary to have two climbers in that tree? Yes.
I like trial by fire as much as the next guy, and that is not how I would do it.
Now to play devil's advocate.
Is it ever necessary to have two climbers in a tree? No.
Necessity doesn't dictate the majority of my actions, even in a tree.
My rope man would have dropped it and it would have looked much smoother.
There are all kinds of situations where I might set up a tip tie on either a vertical or horizontal limb when I'm not going to suck it all the way around to the rigging point. Usually a near mid tie accomplishes the same thing in those situations, but it might not always.

I'd like to go play in some trees with Human. He generally has a positive attitude, I've seen him own a few mistakes, and he has got balls.
I can work with that.
As long as he is the sort of person who absorbs the words that I say.
I appreciate most everything you have said here. Curious about the all kindas of times you would tip tie. On a vertical piece when the lowering point is somewhat overhead I get it. But on a horizontal piece why would you tip tie if you don't plan on pulling the piece toward the lowering point? When you make the cut the butt end just flops away generally not very controlled. And usually it takes more work to get out and tip tie unless you are already there. And for a mid tie unless your limited on space why mid tie, it comes off funky usually and you run the risk of the butt coming at you or hitting you. I do get the mid tie if you are trying to balance the cut for some reason, but that can be dicey if you don't guess the balancing point. So what other than necessity dictates your actions in the tree? There is a reason behind everything I do in the tree which is dictated by necessity. Are you saying that the majority of your actions in the tree are unnecessary? If there is no necessity to have 2 climbers in the tree why do it? I can see for instructional purposes. I appreciate the conversation, break it down for me.
 
I do a ton of rigging, often big pieces, all from the bucket these days.....
I find it very rare to need to tip tie and/or lift anything. There is almost always room to swing a piece sideways from a near balance point tie off... IMO most of the tip tying I see on YouTube is unnecessary. Some of it unnecessarily dangerous.

However the need does arise every once in a while, and when it does I AM GVERY grateful for it..

Few weeks ago I showed up for a big removal only to find asplundh two man crew assigned to trim the same tree back from the wires. We were both in 75' elevators. They parked in the street, I parked in the driveway... The chicken out on one of the tallest limbs way out over the wires, even though they were much closer to it than I was. When I got there, with the bucket maxed out, I was hoping to run a satellite rigging block as high as I could, tie off the piece, and then cut just beyond the block. With that plan , the end of the limb would have been hanging straight down over the wires. I'd guess there was still 25'+ of limb left. With that much limb and a little stretch in the line it was going to be close. With white oak especially any bit of tips swinging that fast into the wires would have taken them out.

I asked the groundie from asplundh what he thought and he said NO WAY...

Plan B.. use pole saw to reset rigging line natural crotch through a slightly higher and offset overhead point nearer the center of the tree, then reach out with 12' pole saw and tip tie the limb, come down 12-15 feet and cut it with a notch that would swing the piece slightly to the left (same side as the offset overhead rigging point)...


It worked so well.... No part of that 40' limb came near me or the wires... Probably 20' of clearance from the wires, as the tips swung slightly left until the piece let go, then they stood straight up and flew back away from the wires towards the center of the tree.

Asplundh guys had been cutting and chucking 2' pieces on just about everything... Not sure if they thought I was crazy, lucky, or good..
 
I appreciate most everything you have said here. Curious about the all kindas of times you would tip tie. On a vertical piece when the lowering point is somewhat overhead I get it. But on a horizontal piece why would you tip tie if you don't plan on pulling the piece toward the lowering point? When you make the cut the butt end just flops away generally not very controlled. And usually it takes more work to get out and tip tie unless you are already there. And for a mid tie unless your limited on space why mid tie, it comes off funky usually and you run the risk of the butt coming at you or hitting you. I do get the mid tie if you are trying to balance the cut for some reason, but that can be dicey if you don't guess the balancing point. So what other than necessity dictates your actions in the tree? There is a reason behind everything I do in the tree which is dictated by necessity. Are you saying that the majority of your actions in the tree are unnecessary? If there is no necessity to have 2 climbers in the tree why do it? I can see for instructional purposes. I appreciate the conversation, break it down for me.
Fun, artistry, and simply having multiple ideas that could work in (almost) any given situation are enough to say that I am not usually motivated by necessity. Lots of the time I do what I think will look cool or maybe cut out some labor. The two climbers in a tree is usually fun, can be more efficient, and definitely presents opportunities for education. Necessity just doesn't rear its head very often.
I'm sorry that I can't really paint a picture of the times that I'd prefer an ugly tip tie. I know that it happens, but I'm honestly drawing a blank. Could be that it is 2am. Happy new year.
 
I tip tie mostly on long horizontal limbs that have no clearance for conventional rigging.
With this method I incorporate a "butt tie" as well. This provides a very controlled lowering method. As a bonus, the butt rope can be used as a tag line after the weight is transferred to the main lowering line.
 

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