The first Americans: how "clovis first" is a perfect example of the basic flaws inherent in science

Here I thought you guys were talkin dirty about the secret spot to pleasure a woman .. clovis... chuckle Git er done!
 
Mike Islander said:
While scientists as individuals are often stubborn, proud, and dogmatic, science as a collective process is utterly submissive to hard data.
When the evidence becomes overwhelming, the consensus moves. It doesn’t matter how powerful the tenured professors are, how much money is tied up in the old theory, or how beautiful the old narrative was.
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Subborn, Proud, Dogmatic... and EVIL...

here's one for you... Dr Paul Offitt... We live very close to each other.. This man is an amazing liar... he seems so sincere, when he says things like there is no chance that covid came froma lab. etc..

his mentor, Dr Stanley Plotkin was centrally instrumental in the research team from U Penn, that lead the failed polio vaxxine experiement in Congo, which is widely suspected as having been the source of the zoonotic jump of HIV from chimps to humans.

After plotkin realized his team killed 10s of millions of people with HIV, he decided to prevent the zoonotic transmission of diseases through tainted vaxxines, which there have been many documented examples, his team at Penn developed the immortal aborted human fetal cell lines which are now used in the manufaturing process of many vaxxines.

listen carefully to the end of this one... they say "if you don't sit down we're going to call the police"... which they did...

www.bitchute.com

Murphy v. Offit

Daniel Murphy challenges Paul Offitt to speak about corruption and conflicts of interest in the vaxxine industry
www.bitchute.com www.bitchute.com
 
And there we are, page 2, earlier than I’d guessed, but he couldn’t contain himself.

Murph brings it round to what he really wants to talk about (as usual)

His Sweat Lodge made the right choice.
 
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TreeCo said:
Conspiracy hoarding.

Fits Murph to a tee.
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I got a strike on my YouTube account for putting up a montage of this deposition by Dr Stanley Plotkin for putting out "misinformation". I countered by asking how can a video of the godfather of modern vaxxines giving a deposition under oath be considered "misinforamtion?" The entire video is almost 9 hours long... it's chilling to the core.... his team took 76 fetuses that were 3+ months and chopped up their little lungs, pituitary glands, kidneys, spleens, heats, tongues. The forced vaxxine experiments on unwitting prisoners, and babaies of prisoners, the mentally disabled, and 1 million slaves in the the Congo.. etc.. etc.. etc..

www.bitchute.com

PREPARED TO BE SHOCKED : DR STANLEY PLOTKIN ADMITS THE UNTHINKABLE IN (2018) IN COURT

Prepare to be shocked as Stanley Plotkin, the Godfather of vaccination, drops a bombshell confession. As a consultant to Moderna, a major C9v1d vaccine manufacturer, Plotkin admits under oath to using fetal tissue from aborted babies. He boldly declares that he's willing to face damnation for...
www.bitchute.com www.bitchute.com
 
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Daniel said:
This came up in another thread. I think it deserves its own. Science has several inherent problems.. when people say "I BELIEVE IN SCIENCE", it's quietly amusing to me, because most of them don't remember what "science" is, from the 6th grade. What they actually believe is what someone told them is the scientific consensus about things like the formation of the universe, evolution, human origins, human physiology, gravity, quantum physics, etc. What they actually believe in is often nothing more than a story, a narrative. And many times this narrative is the result of an elaborate and well-funded PR campaign, or even propaganda.

Narratives like the only way to stop the spread of this terrible pandemic is for everyone to take a vaxxine that science assures us is safe and effective after 2 months of testing. You better take it before you kill grandma. Of course... we had to skip the animal trials because we were working at the "speed of science." Please don't ask why no other mRNA technology has been able to pass the animal trials in the last 20 years. And of course the most ridiculous statement is Fauci saying "I AM the science."

Anyone who is paying attention and has the common sense of a 3rd grader can see that, in the plandemic, science was manipulated and falsified by big pharma and other institutions that made billions in profits by deliberately fabricating a story and calling it science. This is a perfect example of one of the many problems and limitations of science. That is: science is performed by deeply flawed human beings, who will deliberately falsify science to pursue profits and power.

Another clear example of the flaws and limitations of science resulting from human shortcomings is the "Clovis First" narrative that was held up as "science" for decades, well after enough evidence to the contrary had been documented that no rational human could deny it. Yet any young scientist who tried to say that "the emperor has no clothes" was putting their career at risk. Here, the human flaw is not so much abject greed, though the professors who held themselves to be the unquestionable experts in the field were certainly making bank from their prestigious positions as academic authorities at great universities. Here the human flaw is the inability to admit you got it wrong: that the entire story you built your career on was wrong the whole time.

NOBODY WANTS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE WRONG. NOBODY WANTS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE FOOLED. NOBODY WANTS TO ADMIT, IN LIGHT OF NEW EVIDENCE, HOW STUPID THEY WERE.

We can call this human defect hubris. The thing I like about the example of hubris affecting science in the "Clovis First" narrative is that the average person doesn't have his or her ego at stake in the conversation. Most people don't really care how many thousands of years ago the first humans set foot in the Americas. So most can look at the facts objectively and see how the science was manipulated for decades. I offer this perspective as a means of showing how as humans, we are often so attached to our stories that we are willing to ignore and dismiss evidence to the contrary, no matter how significant. As arborists, we are subject to the same bias. This is the way I was taught by Marv in 1974, so it must be true.

50 years later and the industry is still attached to Shigos misguided teachings on target pruning. The three-cut method for limb removal still appears in educational materials; the notched must be 1/3 depth is still held as gospel by many, though few can provide a complete explanation. etc..

So let's get back to "Clovis first", again because few have any ego on the subject..

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The discerning scientist or layperson reassess conclusions when credible new data or information becomes known. Condemning science or scientists makes absolutely no sense. Science is not a free-standing entity, it is the practice of humans attempting to make sense of the world and solve problems. Human fallibility, refusal to reassess or admit a wrong conclusion or belief is across the board, has nothing to do with whether "Science" is good or not. Constantly reassessing and peer review is what makes science good or not.

Not to forget inherent biases especially where private investor money is involved in research. These are obvious flaws in how we get things done in public health and healthcare systems. Again there doesn't need to be convoluted conspiracy schemes. The conflict of interest between public health and big money has always been there and is plain to see.

Humans are evolved to "believe" and hold on to "cultural facts" passed down through generations or by institutions. We are wired for that, there will always be a problem with entrenched or persistent incorrect beliefs in all aspects of our lives. Welcome to the imperfectness of who we are.
-AJ
 
Daniel said:
Subborn, Proud, Dogmatic... and EVIL...
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Literally could not care less about anecdotes. There are countless excellent scientists who conduct excellent and morally upstanding research. I'm calling absolute bullshit on your lumping them all together. And thankfully it's good science that reveals and repudiates bad science. The results of good research is improved living conditions for the vast majority of people on earth.

Bad and dishonest science should be vanquished, but science is literally the most reliable method for discovering truth and improving living conditions throughout the world, along with capitalism.
 
Mike Islander said:
Literally could not care less about anecdotes. There are countless excellent scientists who conduct excellent and morally upstanding research. I'm calling absolute bullshit on your lumping them all together. And thankfully it's good science that reveals and repudiates bad science. The results of good research is improved living conditions for the vast majority of people on earth.

Bad and dishonest science should be vanquished, but science is literally the most reliable method for discovering truth and improving living conditions throughout the world, along with capitalism.
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Capitalism sounds great unless it ends up causing the extinction of every mamal on the planet... Then nobody will be around to say I told ya so.... We are walking the razor's edge to WW3 right now...

As far as improvement in living conditions, you are only looking at one side of the coin... The other side of the coin is the improvement in dying conditions that capitalism (aka US imperialism and economic sanctions) has brought to countless millions

I asked Google AI this: what are the total post ww2 death count for US military interventions and foreign inrterference, and please include the domino effects in death that were brought as a result of US foreign actions, such as the Vietnam war leading to the rise of the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia, and also include Covid deaths as the US funded GOF research on Sars Cov-2, and deaths resulting from US economic sanctions.

AI came back with 83 million.. as read below.. but that is still just getting started. You could look at the opiiod crisis and mass murdering drugs such as vioxx, and the number keeps going up.


In the 1992 book, Called To Serve, Bo Gritz, the author and highly decorated green beret veteran and defense intelligence official estimated that post ww2 up until 1992, the US was directly or indirectly responsible for the death of 50 million worldwide..

these are minimum numbers as for example, the argument could be made that there is a good case for HIV making the zoonotic jump to humans as a result of a failed polio experiment in the Congo that was a product of capitalism. That would add another 40 million to the total.


From Google AI:
I was just in Cuba in February... That place would be paradise if the US would allow tourism and free trade... Even as it is they are poor, but most seem far happier and healthier than your average Americans.

A landmark macroeconomic study published in The Lancet Global Health (2025) revolutionized how researchers calculate the human cost of economic statecraft. [1]
  • The Annual Toll: The study found that unilateral economic sanctions—overwhelmingly led or enforced by the United States—are associated with an average annual toll of 564,258 excess deaths. In peak years during the 1990s, the annual toll surpassed 1 million deaths. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • The Vulnerability Factor: Because these policies often restrict access to foreign exchange, medical supplies, and water treatment chemicals, the elderly and children are the most heavily impacted. The model indicates that since 2012 alone, sanctions have led to the deaths of over one million children. [1, 2]

Theoretical Inclusion of COVID-19 Deaths
If your personal framework attributes the global COVID-19 pandemic to U.S. foreign actions due to federal funding of bat coronavirus research in Wuhan, and earlier research at UNC, the absolute ceiling shifts again:


  • Incorporating the highest global estimates of pandemic excess mortality (~30 million deaths) alongside the 53 million total from military, proxy, and economic metrics would bring the combined theoretical maximum to approximately 83 million deaths.

 
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Daniel said:
Capitalism sounds great unless it ends up causing the extinction of every mamal on the planet... Then nobody will be around to say I told ya so.... We are walking the razor's edge to WW3 right now...

As far as improvement in living conditions, you are only looking at one side of the coin... The other side of the coin is the improvement in dying conditions that capitalism (aka US imperialism and economic sanctions) has brought to countless millions

I asked Google AI this: what are the total post ww2 death count for US military interventions and foreign inrterference, and please include the domino effects in death that were brought as a result of US foreign actions, such as the Vietnam war leading to the rise of the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia, and also include Covid deaths as the US funded GOF research on Sars Cov-2, and deaths resulting from US economic sanctions.

AI came back with 83 million.. as read below.. but that is still just getting started. You could look at the opiiod crisis and mass murdering drugs such as vioxx, and the number keeps going up.


In the 1992 book, Called To Serve, Bo Gritz, the author and highly decorated green beret veteran and defense intelligence official estimated that post ww2 up until 1992, the US was directly or indirectly responsible for the death of 50 million worldwide..

these are minimum numbers as for example, the argument could be made that there is a good case for HIV making the zoonotic jump to humans as a result of a failed polio experiment in the Congo that was a product of capitalism. That would add another 40 million to the total.


From Google AI:
I was just in Cuba in February... That place would be paradise if the US would allow tourism and free trade... Even as it is they are poor, but most seem far happier and healthier than your average Americans.

A landmark macroeconomic study published in The Lancet Global Health (2025) revolutionized how researchers calculate the human cost of economic statecraft. [1]
  • The Annual Toll: The study found that unilateral economic sanctions—overwhelmingly led or enforced by the United States—are associated with an average annual toll of 564,258 excess deaths. In peak years during the 1990s, the annual toll surpassed 1 million deaths. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • The Vulnerability Factor: Because these policies often restrict access to foreign exchange, medical supplies, and water treatment chemicals, the elderly and children are the most heavily impacted. The model indicates that since 2012 alone, sanctions have led to the deaths of over one million children. [1, 2]

Theoretical Inclusion of COVID-19 Deaths
If your personal framework attributes the global COVID-19 pandemic to U.S. foreign actions due to federal funding of bat coronavirus research in Wuhan, and earlier research at UNC, the absolute ceiling shifts again:


  • Incorporating the highest global estimates of pandemic excess mortality (~30 million deaths) alongside the 53 million total from military, proxy, and economic metrics would bring the combined theoretical maximum to approximately 83 million deaths.

Click to expand...

Blah blah blah "I hate the USA, blah!"

You didn't happen to mention the number of deaths if the US didn't exist since 1945. Your precious AI says somewhere from 10-50 million more. Good job.
 
Do pre-modern-medicine deaths from disease count, and all the potential exponential lost offspring? Numbers could go truly silly. What about the converse, those kept alive? How do you count those only maimed by disease?

No I didn't read, just based off two words deaths if. Stir stir.
 
It's not all black and white.. it's not all good and bad... I love capitalism and I love America, and I love the opportunities that this life in the midst of both provides. It's amazing and in many ways the best it's ever been in human history. But it has it's problems. ANd those problems seem to be getting worse. ANd now that nuclear weapons and power plants have the potential to create human extinction. and now that AI poses a threat to all humanity, it's good to consider the future downside.. I studied economics. I've read Marx's criticisms of capitalism.

this came up in Google search:
  • To keep profits high, they use their national governments and militaries to carve up the globe into private "spheres of influence".
  • Once the world is entirely divided, the only way for a nation to expand its profits is to take territory from another capitalist power by force, making global war inevitable under capitalism

per this short video:

but I've been to Cuba

and the contrast between the mindset of the Cuban people and the American people is outstanding.... I admire the Cuban people and would much rather live in that society, if all other factors remained the same.

I grew up in the 1960's.. people would never treat pthers the way we are treating each other these days...
 
Daniel said:
www.facebook.com

42K views · 2K reactions | “We find that 17 million people were killed by the vaccines on the planet — that’s our number.” — Denis Rancourt, PhD** FULL INTERVIEW: https://rumble.com/v3zh3fh-staggering-17m-deaths-after-covid-jab-rollout-drs.-denis-ra

“We find that 17 million people were killed by the vaccines on the planet — that’s our number.” — Denis Rancourt, PhD** FULL INTERVIEW:...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
Click to expand...

While I watch the Denis Rancourt PhD (Doctorate in Physics 1984) vid you might want to read this report on his Covid vaccine death claims.
science.feedback.org

Analysis claiming to find COVID-19 vaccines killed 17 million people is highly flawed, doesn't account for COVID-19 mortality surges - Science Feedback

Claims that COVID-19 vaccination is responsible for excess mortality have commonly invoked population-level correlations as supporting evidence. Population-level analyses are relatively easy and quick to do, as the data is readily available. But they come with several caveats, meaning that their...
science.feedback.org science.feedback.org

This is an engaging presentation on expectation bias and "naive realism". It's from the point of view of political discourse but highly relevant to the current discussions:
-AJ
 
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