SRT with a Petzl Piranha

HÖLLENREICH

HÖLLENREICH

Location
NJ
I have to get some pics up, but has anyone eles thought of using this. There is no side loading of biners or of the figure 8. It's a simple install just pull the bit through and clip it in the biner. Set it up just like the f8 system. Just unclip it when limb walking back in, I use a hand cender above the friction hitch. Makes it easier to tend your line wakling back.
 
Sounds interesting. Probably works well for descents.

Couple of things i don't like about it right away. Doesn't sound like you could tail your line with it on, i don't want to take it off every time i'm moving up or coming in from a limb walk. I also don't like putting an ascender above my hitch. In a srt set up if that ascender was to fail its going to catch your hitch with no back up. I would think that there would be more opportunity for an ascender to fail as well since your not just ascending straight up, as i feel they are designed for.

Mostly just my opinion. Just don't think it would be as efficient since every time you take up line your going to have to take the Piranha off. Maybe i'm mistaken, i probably should have waited for the pictures.

I would like to see a device or different set up to eliminate the side pressure between the krab and 8, in the F8 set up. Hopefully a manufacturer sees the value in this and develops something.
 
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Hopefully a manufacturer sees the value in this and develops something.

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OO there is somthing made that would work great in this setup. Kong makes it I have to get one frist before I'd bost about it. As for the piranha it's just a pull of line I used this all day sat and was pleased with the out come might sound like extra work, but it's not. Just open biner and flip pull out to take up slack on retruns takes like 2 seconds. I tried the others and it was how do you say daunting to try and move the 8 and biner up the line even the ring and pulley take some effort to advance. Whit just a sec you flip line out and tend rope, the hand cender is not really called for I'm just lazy, once done with return you just pinch rope and reconnect piranha. I have 2 crane removals Tue. and plan to use it all day and get some pics.
 
I understand it doesn't take much time. From a safety standpoint though i wouldn't want to be advancing your line without it on. Your hands are going to be above your knot at all times, in the event of a slip or fall there is a good chance of you grabbing your knot. By taking the piranha off this opens you to a dangerous situation. With the F8 by keeping it on, your covered, still dangerous just no more than a typical Drt system.

If i just have my knot with nothing creating more friction, i would want to keep my hands below my knot. Personal preference but i think there are some safety concerns there as well. Just my opinion, but i want to inform you and others of some of the dangers i could see with it.

Last, with the F8, you said that it was hard to advance, i found this very true at first but after trying different setups with different sized 8/rings different biners/pulleys i was able to find a setup that works very smooth both going down and up for me. Honestly no harder to advance than a knot with a few to many wraps.

I do like that your constantly trying to come up with new ideas, i'm the same way. Keep at it, but when coming up with new techniques be overly safety conscious.
 
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Keep at it, but when coming up with new techniques be overly safety conscious.

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Good point.

Ok now on with the pics
 

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Whats the other line for in the pictures?

The last picture, would you trust that set up in just a single line ascent? I know it would fail at a competition. The ascender must be backed up and your hitch below would not qualify. Just saying
 
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Whats the other line for in the pictures?

The last picture, would you trust that set up in just a single line ascent? I know it would fail at a competition. The ascender must be backed up and your hitch below would not qualify. Just saying

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the other line is my other end of rope tied to the last lead in the pics it was a 3 lead maple crane job. Tied it off spiked up set strap then decended.

Whats so wrong I have a hitch under the ascender? If the hand cender fails the hitch on my belt will grab before it hits the hitch.

My hitch is just that, my hitch, it's a knot I invented. I really don't care weather it will pass for a comp Country. It's just a new idea. Pssttt little fact in life comps are for fun and new ideas how do you know it will not pass? I can prove to the judge that it will break lose and grab just as good as any other knot.? Must I be stuck to climb on only the couple of knots that so called tree champs use? Just cuase someones name aint in the hall of shame winners his knots or ideas are not worthy?

Anyways thank you for your input I'll work on the set up more. Like I said though before the cender is really not needed for wakling back I'm just lazy like that.
 
haha sorry i wasn't very clear. I have no problem with your hitch. Intersting, might try it some time, but i have no 5mm. I'm always open to new hitches.

What i was referring to was your single line set up for ascension. If the ascender was to fail it would slide down the rope catching your hitch, sending you into a fall. That is why your backup must be above your ascender.

As much as you might trust an ascender, i've seen them fail. Recently too. Didn't grab just slide right down the rope in the middle of ascent. Wasn't going through brush or leaves. Just failed to grab. Thankfully he had them backed up! If that were to happen to you in your set up, they would slide down and release your hitch. Trust me if the climber had that set up when his ascender failed he would have been in a free fall to the ground.

Hope that cleared up what i was talking about. Hope you bring your hitch to the PA or NJ comp so i can get a look at it in action.
 
wait if I have my hitch at bridge, I try to foot lock up and cender slips. My hitch will grab before the cender will hit it I'm sure of it. I'll have to do some low and slow fall test.

I can't belive the cender would fall all the way to hitch with that much space between.

So what about a hitch and hitch system how is that diff, if the top hitch slips it will fall into the other and free fall. I belive that is a pot calling the kettle black rule.

I'll tweak some more though.
 
How much pressure does it take for you to release your hitch? For me its not much at all, i like might to release at a touch not where i would neat to tug on it at all. So for me if my ascender failed, i know i'm putting all my weight into it, even with my hitch catching the force of my ascender coming down is going to break it. I know for myself this would spell disaster.

Try it out low and let me know what you find. I will too.

This is just my opinion i'm not expert but i'll trust a single hitch in ascension as long as its just out of reach. Just like a prussic or a kliemhist is considered safe in ascension, but for ascension only. I don't trust mechanical devices as they wear and can fail. Even though i inspect, i honestly don't know what type of problem i'm looking for in a mechanical device. With a hitch i can clearly see the external wear, and i can feel internal wear. Again this is my person opinion i know other climber better than my self that feel differently.

When i'm working a tree srt and i need to ascend for a period of time where i might use an ascend; i safety in and extend my hitch with a tether, then i either footlock with that acting as my prussic, or i'll place ascenders underneath. Now my hitch has just become my backup. After getting to my desired location i'll re-safety and remove the ascender and reattach my hitch to my bridge.

Finally i want to say that i don't like to use ascenders unless moving perpendicular to the ground/ ascending straight upwards. If your to take a swing you risk the rope putting side pressure on the cam of the ascender, in a way the cam is not intended to hold. Failures like this have happened before. Once again personal opinion but i feel for good reason.

I'm getting long winded, hope you could follow it all. Question anything you want, i have no problem explaining further, and i have reasons behind all my theories and thinkings.
 
This is too much fun for me debating new ideas and techniques. But seriously if someone doesn't understand what i'm saying please ask first before trying anything. I would hate to think someone got hurt because i explained something poorly! Thats the biggest reason i'm debating Holly so much on this, i want others to see some of the pro's and con's when trying something new like this.

Knowledge can be extremely helpful but if we only know a part, it can be even more DANGEROUS!

(For example; a spanish guy knows how to put a rope on a large branch, but hasn't fully been taught all the factors involved, and it comes back and catches him in the chest! His knowledge has now become dangerous!)
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Had to use that example Holly
 
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