SRT with a Petzl Piranha

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So what about a hitch and hitch system how is that diff, if the top hitch slips it will fall into the other and free fall. I belive that is a pot calling the kettle black rule.



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When would you use a hitch and hitch system? A hitch is safer than mechanical ascenders. When you climb with a hitch as an anchor point, you tie a knot or a marlin spike below the hitch, not another hitch.

A hitch above the ascender is the failsafe, not the other way around..
 
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Had to use that example Holly

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Heh good one. The knot I use breaks loose as easy as a VT. It's all good, it's one way to set it up, the walk in part is the bug to cure. I have a few more ideas I just have to buy some toys first.


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A hitch above the ascender is the failsafe, not the other way around..

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Why is that? I've seen cavers set up frog systems like this and it's ok hand cender, hand cender with foot loop, prusik at harness brindge. Just wonder why it's ok for cavers and rocker to use cender above, but tree is a no no?
 
If the ascender failed and a hitch were tied below, would the failed ascender simply slide down the line and release the hitch? In theory anyway?
 
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simply slide down the line and release the hitch?

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My point exactly. More like the cender fail you get the oooo out but never the s%6t from mouth the hitch grabs and your still grasping the cender in hand. 3 seconds after your checking your pants and saying WTF.
 
Yes tophopper thats what i was trying to say above. Holly argued that the hitch would be loaded so it wouldn't release.

I tested it just a little today, what i found was even if the hitch is under load, when the ascender fails and the handle catches the hitch it will release. It was interesting to me but if the handle misses your hitch and its the cam that hits the hitch, it will bind and not go anywhere. I tested it with a Kong double ascender and a vt hitch.

Very basic test. Nothing scientific.
 
Just curious if your using this similar to the F8 system. The Piranha adds a different:) angle to the gear involved, So how well does the system tend on the return? Are you removing the 8 on the way back? cause it seems the friction would be horrendous!
 
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Are you removing the 8 on the way back?

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Yes.

we are farther talking about my lazy habits of using a hand cender above the hitch to return.

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The Piranha adds a different:) angle to the gear involved

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It does put evrything in a nice line with no side loading.
 
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the anchor bridge effect to eliminate that issue

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Could be, I'll have to give it a try. I also thought about having two bridges. One fixed and one adjustable with grigri, hitch on adjustable, pop piran off let bridge out cender on fixed tail in.
 
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A hitch is safer than mechanical ascenders.

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I believe that this is a myth. Has there ever been any peer reviewed testing to prove this? There is an impression in arbo world that hitches are safer. That doesn't hold up to scrutiny in the rope world though. Arbos DO have the best understanding of rope on rope friction. But, there are many more miles of climbing/descending done on mechanicals than using cord/rope.

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A hitch above the ascender is the failsafe, not the other way around..

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Several other SRT climbers and I have discussed this and the concensus is that this system would not hold up to proper testing. Sure, it's used and seems to work...but, I've talked with climbers who have done some simple tests and not had the hitch set/grab too often.

The variables that need to be considered when using rope/rope are way TOO complex for me to feel comfortable supporting or suggesting their use.

The bias against using mechanicals for climbing is interesting to me. Especially when there has been such an interest in the Buck Blocks for climbing. This isn't a snipe at the BBs, its just that the tool is expensive, complex and I wonder how many fewer calories a climber is going to expend using them. Sometimes simple is best sometimes not.

All of this concern about slipping down the rope can be accounted for very easily. Just tie stopper knots occasionally. This has been SOP for rec tree climbing for years, maybe us pros can learn a thing or two from the rec tree climbers.
 
Wow,

Not at all what I pictured in my head before the pics HÖLLENREICH. I don't think you are being lazy with the hand ascender...you're being smart. I like the idea of your hitch...I've experimented with the 5mm line as a hitch using traditional configs...but it always melted...the ring I assume would take the brunt of the heat? I am interested in learning how you form that hitch...

Not going to comment on backup above/below, mechanical/rope-rope, etc...to each their own in the field...get up, get down without injury = SAFE in my books. Comp rules are comp rules, period.

To comment on what Tom Dunlap just said...I think us production guys (mainly our bodies) could greatly benefit from rec climbers ideas. I strongly think that if you remove the production stress it would allow a much more open mind. How many production guys climb trees for fun? To take it a step further; what HÖLLENREICH said about rock climbers and cavers is along the same wavelength, IMO. "Think outside the box" right? Hmmm...

Thanks for sharing the pics. Much clarity was gained.

-Jord
 
Think I found the fix, that'll make everyone happy. Rather then a pully tied in hitch I have placed a Kong back-up. With a simple flip of the switch it works like a cender under the hitch. leaving the hitch to wrok as a back up when tending line on return. Pull the bite and set piran just flip switch and you are free to decend.

I do belive we are now on the way to a no side load workable hitch for SRT.
 
I didn't know those can be made to run freely in either direction? The back-up, with a flip of the switch down lets it just glide down the rope. Flip it up and it acts like a cender. Your saying the Rocker and Ushba does the same? You are talking about the Ushba Basic Ascender?
 
So you would use that in place of a micro pulley, that helps tend your slack? Very interesting. If it ran as smooth as the micro pulley when slack tending i'm all for it. What is the rating on it?
 
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So you would use that in place of a micro pulley, that helps tend your slack?

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yes

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If it ran as smooth as the micro pulley

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I think it does

Wont be till next week that I can get some pics of the set up.

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What is the rating on it?

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I belive even the safest freaks like you would be pleased with the rate it will hold
 
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