knudeNoggin
New member
[ QUOTE ]
(check out my post in Awakenings for the full story). I was using a clove hitch backed up with 1 half hitch (I usually back it up with 2 half hitches, but got lazy at the end of a long day).
[/ QUOTE ]
Lazy, in not making a 2nd hitch; but not so lazy to not test what you DID tie,
and it's instructive (sets one aback) that despite an apparent security shown
in the test, the knot in fact loosened upon rappelling!
[ QUOTE ]
I have learned that the clove hitch works very well when pulling perpendicular to the load, but can roll out when pulling parallel to the load.
[/ QUOTE ]
It can roll out by any angle of load, and will be more vulnerable to this failure
the relatively large the diameter of the hitched object is (such as a tree trunk
vs. a limb). But that only indicates a need for a securing structure to the knot.
As some have pointed out, the Cow & Better Half (or the version of this that I
described in another threat) should work. Had you put in an Overhand stopper
on you single Half-hitch, that should have prevented any slippage (provided the
stopper was snug to the Clove--something one cannot easily tie with a Fig.8, note).
Bowlines can capsize; I have a piece of chopped 3/4 laid PP rope with some knot
jammed permanently in it which I just figured out is a capsize Bwl! Maybe it could've
been tied a bit tighter (it's rather amazing how open bwl.s are tied in so many
yachting pics one can see--really big collar!?), but then perhaps working in such
stout rope the hands were little compared to the loading which contorted it!?
As for the ability to lower an injured climber if the rope (over a crotch) were knotted,
wouldn't the practice be to tie off near the end of the rope, excess being on the
SRT-climbed side? --so there'd not be material to lower, regardless (one would
have to anticipate this potential and tie with the long side or tie in the bight).
One could have a separate rope to wrap the trunk (wrap 2 pull 1, e.g.), and some
bit of metal (locking HMS 'biner) to which the climbing rope was tied, with a Crossing
("Backhanded") knot (aka Munter H., Demicapstan knot) & half-hitches.
[snipped, repeated]
The "Cow & Better Half" shown here:
www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/9073-cow%20hitch2.JPG
can be made more secure by having the finish "Half" hitch encompass the Cow's
collar bight (so, bitter end backwards the crossings would be: over-over, under
(itself--red under red--), & then UNDER the Cow bight to come around the block's
line. And no more tying, or at least NOT the dogging of the end that's shown above.
Untying this version best begins with prying off (away & down from pile/tree) the
upper Cow collar leg, and then things should loosen up pretty easily.
Along these lines, let me here [re-] introduce what I'll call the
"Collared Clove" hitch. Easiest way to reach the knot (though NOT how to tie it)
might be to work from this image:
gpvec.unl.edu/files/Knots/CloveHitchQrelease.JPG
With this slipped Clove, give the slip-tuck (bight) a half twist such that the left leg
is brought over the other, positioning the end thus between the wraps of the
Clove; now just reeve the SPart up through this slip-tuck eye, and snug up the bight.
As with the Better Half, the end here gets pretty well nipped by other parts, when
loaded.
*knudeNoggin*
(check out my post in Awakenings for the full story). I was using a clove hitch backed up with 1 half hitch (I usually back it up with 2 half hitches, but got lazy at the end of a long day).
[/ QUOTE ]
Lazy, in not making a 2nd hitch; but not so lazy to not test what you DID tie,
and it's instructive (sets one aback) that despite an apparent security shown
in the test, the knot in fact loosened upon rappelling!
[ QUOTE ]
I have learned that the clove hitch works very well when pulling perpendicular to the load, but can roll out when pulling parallel to the load.
[/ QUOTE ]
It can roll out by any angle of load, and will be more vulnerable to this failure
the relatively large the diameter of the hitched object is (such as a tree trunk
vs. a limb). But that only indicates a need for a securing structure to the knot.
As some have pointed out, the Cow & Better Half (or the version of this that I
described in another threat) should work. Had you put in an Overhand stopper
on you single Half-hitch, that should have prevented any slippage (provided the
stopper was snug to the Clove--something one cannot easily tie with a Fig.8, note).
Bowlines can capsize; I have a piece of chopped 3/4 laid PP rope with some knot
jammed permanently in it which I just figured out is a capsize Bwl! Maybe it could've
been tied a bit tighter (it's rather amazing how open bwl.s are tied in so many
yachting pics one can see--really big collar!?), but then perhaps working in such
stout rope the hands were little compared to the loading which contorted it!?
As for the ability to lower an injured climber if the rope (over a crotch) were knotted,
wouldn't the practice be to tie off near the end of the rope, excess being on the
SRT-climbed side? --so there'd not be material to lower, regardless (one would
have to anticipate this potential and tie with the long side or tie in the bight).
One could have a separate rope to wrap the trunk (wrap 2 pull 1, e.g.), and some
bit of metal (locking HMS 'biner) to which the climbing rope was tied, with a Crossing
("Backhanded") knot (aka Munter H., Demicapstan knot) & half-hitches.
[snipped, repeated]
The "Cow & Better Half" shown here:
www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/9073-cow%20hitch2.JPG
can be made more secure by having the finish "Half" hitch encompass the Cow's
collar bight (so, bitter end backwards the crossings would be: over-over, under
(itself--red under red--), & then UNDER the Cow bight to come around the block's
line. And no more tying, or at least NOT the dogging of the end that's shown above.
Untying this version best begins with prying off (away & down from pile/tree) the
upper Cow collar leg, and then things should loosen up pretty easily.
Along these lines, let me here [re-] introduce what I'll call the
"Collared Clove" hitch. Easiest way to reach the knot (though NOT how to tie it)
might be to work from this image:
gpvec.unl.edu/files/Knots/CloveHitchQrelease.JPG
With this slipped Clove, give the slip-tuck (bight) a half twist such that the left leg
is brought over the other, positioning the end thus between the wraps of the
Clove; now just reeve the SPart up through this slip-tuck eye, and snug up the bight.
As with the Better Half, the end here gets pretty well nipped by other parts, when
loaded.
*knudeNoggin*
