Srt descent issue Michoacan

A

Aragorn

My setup:

New Tribe Champion saddle
Arborplex 12mm climbing rope - 120'
4/3 VT climbing hitch w/micro pulley
1/2" hard 3-strand lanyard, double snap hook, 4/2 VT, micro pulley - 15'
CT foot ascender, right
Croll ascender, self-made Haas, left
Over shoulder lanyard hitch tending on ascent
4 years Ddrt- beginning Srt for ascent

I've started doing some ascending Srt on the VT, descending on same with Munter backup. I've found the VT allows more drop back than I like on the way up and needs some hand help to get locked to hang on, so today I did some low/slow with Michoacán. I really liked the shorter knot and quick grab but ran into a problem. I had the knot on a single crab to my soft center ring and a crab on my soft right D with the Munter. As I descended, the Munter crab walked closer and closed until it was hard against and blocked my hitch tending pulley. I tried using my right ascender and that just put further pressure on the Munter. I managed to get free and was only a few feet off the ground but not a good feeling.
I added another crab at the bridge which solved this issue but lengthens the package. Would there be any reason not to use my accessory ring a bit further back for the Munter biner? The hitch is still my life safety and the Munter traps the crab in event of accessory ring failure. Of course the crab would end up where it was today if that happened. Other ideas?
I will add this is partly attributable to this saddle fitting waist 32 to I think 44 and mines 32. Everything's tight as I can go.
 
Hold on

You’re descending SRT with a hitch, and a Munter below it for added friction?

This CAN work, but ... why? If you insist on going this route, get a fig8 to save your rope from Munter rope on rope wear

Alternatively get a hitch hiker or rope wrench and have your mind blown. Your configuration sounds very tedious for any kind of work positioning
 
Adding a RW would be my actual suggestion. But to do it the hard/no cost way, stick the extra fraction up top.
 
WaitakKauri said:
Just a thought, I'd try adding friction above your hitch.

I'd place a ring (could be a ring from a figure 8), with biner adove the hitch and tether back to the biner with your hitch.

A quick search pulled up what is the earliest go at this. I'm heading out so will look for some pictures to add later.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/feight-revolver.11030/
Click to expand...

I have an 8. I'll have to try what you're describing. I've shied away from anything above my hitch. How would you unload the Munter above the hitch during descent if you had to or wanted to without a limb? Guess I need more pictures.

That video is ancient!
 
Last edited:
CanadianStan said:
Hold on

You’re descending SRT with a hitch, and a Munter below it for added friction?

This CAN work, but ... why? If you insist on going this route, get a fig8 to save your rope from Munter rope on rope wear

Alternatively get a hitch hiker or rope wrench and have your mind blown. Your configuration sounds very tedious for any kind of work positioning
Click to expand...

So far I've only fooled with ascent and coming down with Munter backup for practice. I expect I'll change over to Ddrt once aloft if working or moving around a canopy. I have an 8 but get much less twist with the Munter and so far I'm just trying to prepare for things that might go "not as planned" on an ascent.
Four years ago my only metal was a crab, now I'm rattling like a one man band. An HH or RW could be the tambourine or, as you describe them - the icing on the cake. Thanks
 
Yeah, it's old, but that's part of the history of the rope wrench. I can't find a picture so I might just have to take one tomorrow.
 
Sounds like you have some of the gear and the right mindset - you understand the complexities involved - it's time to make the leap to SRT. Yes go rope wrench it's the best(thanks again treebing), upgrade that rope to something less stretchy, try Samson Vortex if you like em fat. Save some coin and invest in your system, you'll thank yourself.
 
WaitakKauri said:
Yeah, it's old, but that's part of the history of the rope wrench. I can't find a picture so I might just have to take one tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Problem with the "old" is I'm not able to see the set up due to picture quality, at least not on my phone. I didn't even realize there was a revolver in the mix.
 
rico said:
Get a wrench! Done.
Be careful because you might never use Ddrt again though?
Click to expand...
How do you advance the tip Srt without your climbing rope being detached from your harness short of hauling up your rope to advance the tail or undoing a bowline/butterfly and changing to Ddrt if the tip was isolated? Or pulling enough new rope through your hitch to set a new isolated tip. The thought of dropping my climbing rope is something I wouldn't chance. Are you saying because you don't have to isolate a branch the initial set is all you usually need to do?
 
So far, in playing with Srt ascent, while the speed and efficiency are nice, the biggest benefit to me is getting the second leg of a Ddrt setup out of my face along with the friction from occasional twist of the two ropes. I definitely see it as the future for ascending.
 
Leave your climb line attached to your harness, and use your lanyard when making climb rope anchor changes, or adjustments.
 
Raven said:
Sounds like you have some of the gear and the right mindset - you understand the complexities involved - it's time to make the leap to SRT. Yes go rope wrench it's the best(thanks again treebing), upgrade that rope to something less stretchy, try Samson Vortex if you like em fat. Save some coin and invest in your system, you'll thank yourself.
Click to expand...
I've been looking at Yale's Poison Ivy anticipating Srt access then Ddrt once in. Any thoughts on that? I think before a wrench, I need to invest in a HC pulley and sewn eye-to-eye to clean up my act. One of the reasons I've been trying the Michoacan is to determine my "happy hitch" so I can order the right length.
I'm currently using 10mm Kernmantle with double fishermen's on the 12mm rope and it runs well for me on both VT and Michoacán. If I go to a 11.7mm rope and hope to keep the same hitch response, ascending Srt with Ddrt changeover, what would everyone suggest for the eye-to-eye? Beeline?
 
Brocky said:
Leave your climb line attached to your harness, and use your lanyard when making climb rope anchor changes, or adjustments.
Click to expand...
How are you never disconnected from the tree or more than 2 feet over your tip doing this, unless you carry two lanyards?
 
A basal anchor system would require two lanyards, or hauling the end of your climb line up, as you mentioned.
The climb line can be a second lanyard with a canopy anchor.
Another possibility is to make a temporary lanyard out of a long loop from the climb line.
 
Aragorn said:
I've been looking at Yale's Poison Ivy anticipating Srt access then Ddrt once in. Any thoughts on that? I think before a wrench, I need to invest in a HC pulley and sewn eye-to-eye to clean up my act. One of the reasons I've been trying the Michoacan is to determine my "happy hitch" so I can order the right length.
I'm currently using 10mm Kernmantle with double fishermen's on the 12mm rope and it runs well for me on both VT and Michoacán. If I go to a 11.7mm rope and hope to keep the same hitch response, ascending Srt with Ddrt changeover, what would everyone suggest for the eye-to-eye? Beeline?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you won't be able to determine your happy hitch length testing hitches on Arborplex in stationary rope mode (SRT, SRS etc, rope construction i sso different than Poison Ivy. Any of the popular hitch cords out there will work well enough DRT on Poison Ivy, once you get a Rope Wrench you'll get more picky. Everyone has their favorite cordage for a wrench/hitch/11.7 mm Yale double braid setup: Beeline, Ocean Polyester, Armor-Prus, Epi-Cord are all popular choices, any of them will work fine.
-AJ
 
Brocky said:
A basal anchor system would require two lanyards, or hauling the end of your climb line up, as you mentioned.
The climb line can be a second lanyard with a canopy anchor.
Another possibility is to make a temporary lanyard out of a long loop from the climb line.
Click to expand...
At this point I guess I'd describe that as a change over to Ddrt. Semantics I suppose?
 
Aragorn said:
How do you advance the tip Srt without your climbing rope being detached from your harness short of hauling up your rope to advance the tail or undoing a bowline/butterfly and changing to Ddrt if the tip was isolated? Or pulling enough new rope through your hitch to set a new isolated tip. The thought of dropping my climbing rope is something I wouldn't chance. Are you saying because you don't have to isolate a branch the initial set is all you usually need to do?
Click to expand...

Until you start climbing on a multicender it's tough to get your head around the changes you'll make in your climbing style. Climbing on a basal anchor you can lanyard in and set a mechanical redirect (sling and a carabiner) to advance. Only one lanyard required. Climbing SRT is a different kind of strategic approach than DRT, every tree, every situation and goal of the climb effects how you anchor your main rope, how you advance and when you implement different redirect types (mechanical vs. natural crotch).
-AJ
 
moss said:
Yeah, you won't be able to determine your happy hitch length testing hitches on Arborplex in stationary rope mode (SRT, SRS etc, rope construction i sso different than Poison Ivy. Any of the popular hitch cords out there will work well enough DRT on Poison Ivy, once you get a Rope Wrench you'll get more picky. Everyone has their favorite cordage for a wrench/hitch/11.7 mm Yale double braid setup: Beeline, Ocean Polyester, Armor-Prus, Epi-Cord are all popular choices, any of them will work fine.
-AJ
Click to expand...
I have seen a lot of OP fans in my travels. More to study........thanks.
 
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