Splice Eye catching friction hitch

Neight

Neight

Location
Ontario
Hey guys/girls. First I'd like to say hello to everyone as this is my first time posting on the forums. Glad I found it and looking forward to using it.
A little about myself. I did a bit of arboriculture approximately 15 years ago. I completed the first 1/2 of the arborist certificate but unfortunately never followed it through. Just recently I started climbing again, and oh man there is so much to learn. When I stopped climbing, double rope was the only choice, and you could choose between a Blake hitch or a taut line hitch. I am almost overwhelmed with all the options out there now.
I have decided to start slow so I am continuing to use DRT. Once I get the hang of things again I will attempt SRT.
My setup, teufelberger pulley saver, hitch climbing pulley, Teufelberger 10 mm sewn eye & eye, using Yale blue moon 11.7 rope with one eye splice.
My concern, I have noticed several times when ascending up the tree after tending my slack that my eye splice sits on my friction hitch (usually a VT/or XT hitch) causing the hitch not to catch. It is easily fixable by separating the ropes and allowing the eye splice to fall below the top of the hitch. Am I doing something wrong or is this something to watch out for?
Sorry for such a long winded post, just excited to have started climbing again.

Thanks for any input.
 
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Welcome! Sometimes it takes a few trys to dial in the perfect hitch, eye & eye, and rope combo that works for your climbing style and weight. A slightly longer eye and eye may fix your problem or so may a smaller diameter. A vt is kind of a long hitch and you may find something like a distel may set more consistently. Vt is a great hitch but requires attention and may be better to try after you have a lil more experiance, your more comfortable in the tree, and everything isn't so new again.
Your 10 mm eye and eye is right on the edge of being to big for an 11.7 rope. A 8mm eye and eye will likely set and bite better but come with the disadvantage of being harder to break when you are ready to ascend again.
Good luck
 
Welcome Neight. When I first started learning to climb, I, too, had exactly the same problem. I tried every hitch in the book, and I always had the same interference with the hitch. I eventually learned that lots of climbers experienced that problem, so it's not just you. I rarely climb double rope anymore, but the way I eventually solved the problem was to connect the end of the rope to the bridge ring or paw or whatever you use. That meant losing the automatic tending of the hitch when you ascend, but I remedied that by tying a small accessory Prusik loop around the rope and connected it with a small accessory carabiner to the hitch climber pulley to complete the circle. That fixed the hitch tending.
 
Thanks tc262, and misfit. Good to know there is a simple solution to my issue. I'll keep trying different gear/setup to dial this in.

Thanks again,
 
Neight said:
Thanks tc262, and misfit. Good to know there is a simple solution to my issue. I'll keep trying different gear/setup to dial this in.

Thanks again,
Click to expand...
Nice to have another Ontario arborist here, where you from? I ditched friction hitches long ago for mechanical toys like the zig zag and RR so I'm not to much help to your question, but go with what the others said !
Devon
 
deevo said:
Nice to have another Ontario arborist here, where you from? I ditched friction hitches long ago for mechanical toys like the zig zag and RR so I'm not to much help to your question, but go with what the others said !
Devon
Click to expand...

Hey thanks, glad I found the place. I thought about the zig zag, but figured I'd get some more time in before giving the mechanicals a try.

N
 
Neight said:
Hey guys/girls. First I'd like to say hello to everyone as this is my first time posting on the forums. Glad I found it and looking forward to using it.
A little about myself. I did a bit of arboriculture approximately 15 years ago. I completed the first 1/2 of the arborist certificate but unfortunately never followed it through. Just recently I started climbing again, and oh man there is so much to learn. When I stopped climbing, double rope was the only choice, and you could choose between a Blake hitch or a taut line hitch. I am almost overwhelmed with all the options out there now.
I have decided to start slow so I am continuing to use DRT. Once I get the hang of things again I will attempt SRT.
My setup, teufelberger pulley saver, hitch climbing pulley, Teufelberger 10 mm sewn eye & eye, using Yale blue moon 11.7 rope with one eye splice.
My concern, I have noticed several times when ascending up the tree after tending my slack that my eye splice sits on my friction hitch (usually a VT/or XT hitch) causing the hitch not to catch. It is easily fixable by separating the ropes and allowing the eye splice to fall below the top of the hitch. Am I doing something wrong or is this something to watch out for?
Sorry for such a long winded post, just excited to have started climbing again.

Thanks for any input.
Click to expand...
Neight, welcome to the Forum! Sounds like you have quite a nice setup there. You're definitely not the only climber with the splice/hitch issue. Also keep in mind that the PulleySAVER requires your hitch to work a bit harder than rings or rope sleeves.

A question for you:

- Are you walking your tail with a foot ascender or foot lock technique? Body weight on the rope tail makes the host line thinner, sometimes leaving the hitch less prone to auto-grab.

Here are some things you could try:

- First, and most simple...when you attach the upper carabiner (for the working end) to the pulley, try also capturing both legs of the hitch in the 'biner. The end result may look a bit odd at first, but it may uses up excess length, and also keeps the hitch legs from falling under the pulley and totally messing things up. You may also notice that the hitch doesn't quite collapse as much, potentially helping it grab.

- Try a rope with a Slaice. Teufelglberger's lowest profile eye ever produced. The Slaice opens up other configuration options in conjunction with the Hitchclimber Pulley. Refer to the 'Hitchclimber's Guide to the Canopy':
http://treemagineers.com/pdf/hitch_climbers_guide.pdf

- Try a sewn eye hitch cord in a Michoacán configuration. Choose the shortest cordage length that still allows for the hitch to be tied properly. A compact hitch with little setback will often grab despite interference with the splice. Teufelberger' EpiCORD is my hands down favorite in all 3 diameters. I use 8mm on my lanyard, and 9.3mm or 10mm on my primary climbing systems. I am most often a 4/1 wrap, but sometimes a 5/1 wrap depending on hitch length and host line diameter.

- Technique: as you ascend, hold the running end away from the working end, enough to eliminate interference. Doesn't take much.

Best of luck!
 
Another option is to use a long eye that has the splice or knot above the friction hitch and either seize or use rubber tubing or grommets to form a tight eye around the carabiner. This would be easy to see if it is an workable option by using the other end of the rope, if it isn't spliced. Tie something like a figure eight on a bight and test.
 
A photo of your tied system would help as well. I've occasionally experienced the same thing. My solution much like others have said is, if in tree bring the eye of the climbing rope to my bridge, if between trees or if I can't stand it try a different hitch (need to practice hitches on the ground and develop a mental library of which ones work if tying in tree), also the hitch climber has three holes.... I have my hitch on the lowest hole which I attach to my ring, then the bitter end of the climbing rope goes on the middle. I have found this to be my sweet spot, lowing the splice just enough, and providing just that smidgen extra room for separation. However this leaves the uppermost hole inaccessible, which is fine for my climbing style. I never use the M method, and if I'm climbing with two systems I just keep them all on the same ring instead of attaching to the vacant hole on the hitch climber pulley.
 
evo said:
...hitch on the lowest hole which I attach to my ring, then the bitter end of the climbing rope goes on the middle...
Click to expand...

This is what I do, as well. The splice is against the Distel hitch occasionally, but doesn't seem to bother it. I tried hooking the bitter end to the top hole of the pulley, but that just never worked for me. It always seems to cause the hitch interference, when I've tried it.
I recently got one of the two-hole Stein Skywalker pulleys, for another DdRT hitchclimber setup, and that one works real well, too. Seems to work just as good as the DMM pulley, and I haven't noticed any interference with the hitch. I use a canopy anchor for DdRT with an OmniBlock 2.0 pulley... and that keeps the rope legs perfectly spaced, which also helps prevent the splice from interfering with the hitch. I find the 1.5 pulley perfect for the ZigZag, and the 2.0 is just right for a hitchclimber system.

I'm with @evo on the extra hole on the DMM pulley... I can use it for bungee tether point on ascent, but that's about it. I hook extra climb lines to the bridge.
 
Hey guys, I really appreciated all the advice/suggestions.

Ocean, At this time I don't use either an ascender or the foot locking technique. I generall climb by pulling myself up via rope/branches. I tend the slack every few feet. I have climbed a few times using the "floating prusik" found on the hitchclimber guide to the canopy. Works well and I don't have the hitch interfering when using this method. Also I will try that Michoacan hitch when I get out next. I'll upload a picture of my current setup and another picture of your suggested setup (just to confirm)

Eco, I also use the bottom hole on the hitchclimber for my hitch and the middle hole for my spliced eye end of my rope. Can you please further explain this M method? I'm not sure what it is.

JeffGu, on my next treestuff purchase I might have to order me up one of those stein pulleys.

Deevo, Rajelectric, currently I am located just outside of Owen Sound.

Thanks again guys. Nice to have skilled/educated people around to ask my "noob" questions.

N
 
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Neight said:
Hey guys, I really appreciated all the advice/suggestions.

Ocean, At this time I don't use either an ascender or the foot locking technique. I generall climb by pulling myself up via rope/branches. I tend the slack every few feet. I have climbed a few times using the "floating prusik" found on the hitchclimber guide to the canopy. Works well and I don't have the hitch interfering when using this method. Also I will try that Michoacan hitch when I get out next. I'll upload a picture of my current setup and another picture of your suggested setup (just to confirm)

Eco, I also use the bottom hole on the hitchclimber for my hitch and the middle hole for my spliced eye end of my rope. Can you please further explain this M method? I'm not sure what it is.

JeffGu, on my next treestuff purchase I might have to order me up one of those stein pulleys.

Deevo, Rajelectric, currently I am located just outside of Owen Sound.

Thanks again guys. Nice to have skilled/educated people around to ask my "noob" questions.

N
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Cool your not to far away, I'd definitely grab a foot ascender and if the budget allows a Saka or HAAS, your body will thank you down the road.
 
Neight said:
...might have to order me up one of those stein pulleys.
Click to expand...

Here is a hitchclimber setup using the Stein Skywalker pulley. In this case, I'm using a SS bow shackle for the bitter end connection to the pulley. 1/2" KM-III rope, 28" ArmorPrus 10mm sewn eye cord.

KM3-HC-1.webp KM3-HC-2.webp KM3-HC-3.webp KM3-HC-4.webp

...and here is a hitchclimber setup using the DMM Hitchclimber pulley. 1/2" XTC Fire rope, 28" Ocean Polyester 10mm sewn eye cord.

XTC-Fire-HC-1.webp XTC-Fire-HC-2.webp XTC-Fire-HC-3.webp XTC-Fire-HC-4.webp

Neither one of these has any issue with the eye interfering with the hitch, but note orientation of the sewn eye of the climbing line on the first setup. I keep the short section of the sewn eye facing away from the other leg of the climb line. Also, I'm using a 4-over-1 Distel hitch, not a VT.
 
JeffGu said:
Here is a hitchclimber setup using the Stein Skywalker pulley. In this case, I'm using a SS bow shackle for the bitter end connection to the pulley. 1/2" KM-III rope, 28" ArmorPrus 10mm sewn eye cord.

View attachment 42472 View attachment 42473 View attachment 42474 View attachment 42475

...and here is a hitchclimber setup using the DMM Hitchclimber pulley. 1/2" XTC Fire rope, 28" Ocean Polyester 10mm sewn eye cord.

View attachment 42476 View attachment 42477 View attachment 42478 View attachment 42479

Neither one of these has any issue with the eye interfering with the hitch, but note orientation of the sewn eye of the climbing line on the first setup. I keep the short section of the sewn eye facing away from the other leg of the climb line. Also, I'm using a 4-over-1 Distel hitch, not a VT.
Click to expand...
Nice setup Jeffy, nice and shiney looking too! I'd go with that also if I didn't have a zig zag and RR.
 
deevo said:
...if I didn't have a zig zag and RR...
Click to expand...

Well, needing ropes to test the Akimbo on, I started dismantling a lot of setups so I could borrow the rope for my testing. I've got quite the pile of crap here, in the livingroom, and I've got to get this crap put away before the wife gets off work and sees just how much of this crap I actually have. She's likely to have me put away in a home.

TooMuchCrap.webp
 
I'll help you thin out that heard... however I'm still a little in shock about the bow shackle, just seems so wrong...
 
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