some a-hole in memphis just had to get rescued

I have a problem with local saw shops selling climbing gear. There are two shops near me that sell saddles, spikes and ropes at premium prices to anyone with the cash. No training or even a clue to tell a customer where to get training. There should be some liability on the shop for this type of thing. They are a saw shop first, not an arborist supply house.
 
"our client had ladders lashed up to the tree to a height of about 55 feet." the man said LADDERS pleural that is really scary.
i had a neighbor ask me to teach him the knot we use so he could NAIL BOARDS INTO THE TREE TO CLIMB TO THE TOP. SO HE COULD START TAKING THE TREE DOWN A LITTLE AT A TIME! he was 70ish at the time. i think he wanted to die. this was a BIG tree. it would have took eight hours to take down with a 50 ton crane. i need to ride by and see how far he got. i went by a month or two later and he had boards nailed all over the place. i didn't show him anything but i did tell him to buy the tree climbers companion and get some proper training.
 
thank you jeff, you caught what others did not. he had 3 ladders, the first was a 35 footer or so, the others we smaller ones.

I am a firm believer that some liability should be put on shops to make sure training of some sort is involved, even just photocopies of climbing knots and general setup.
 
Just playing the Devil's Advocate here BUT, even IF gear was regulated or not is there any excuse for NOT using the Common sense the Lord gave you?

Gravity, over about 4 feet can hurt, irregardless of training. There have been plenty of accidents with trained people too!

Does that make those professionals "a-holes" like the topic of this thread says???? I think the title is crude and poorly thought up!
 
and yes if you make someone thru your bad decision making have to risk their life to come rescue you out of a tree, off a building, or other means, then you are an a-hole for a duration of time that seems justifiable due to the circumstances involving the incident. this a-hole got stuck in a tree upside down with a branch on his leg for a hour in front of his 10 year old son. what if he would have died? what if he would have crushed his house or child? let the "pros" be pro and let joe home owner keep his feet on the dirt. so if i have to come rescue you out of a tree then your an a hole. don't make me come climb a tree with an extra large hung branch waiting to mash me into grease hanging over my head with you and your son screaming the whole time news cameras rolling. that dude and you for taking up for him are douche in my book.
 
Maybe that is the detail you could've posted first to clearly illustrate what you meant by your thread title. Yep he's an a-hole for that. I wonder if the fire dept might not send him a bill for the rescue since it is clear cut that he is responsible for his predicament and should be held to account for the cost.

That might help people like this to think twice and cut none.....
 
The prospect of regulating/selling or not selling gear to certain people isn't plausible or fair. Anyone can go buy a car or gun and be just as careless as an "a hole" and do the same amount of damage.
It's sad to see these people think they can do what we strive to do perfectly for a living everyday. And if an arborist (getting paid) screws up and dies or has to get rescued, they may just be an "a hole". I would say it depends on what they did to get in that situation.
Either way, it speaks to the main issue. I think the separation has to come from regulation on doing the work (i.e. certified companies/people, city/state regulations).
 
i personally think people should have the god given constitutional right to buy a space shuttle and ride it to the moon if they have enough money. i just want them to have their darwin award outside of the views of the whole city. the news keep saying "well he was a trained marine" wtf does that have to do with tree work. yes i think they should send him a $5000 dollar bill. this incident is not uncommon in my town. at least two people die here every year from tree related deaths. this crap doesn't even make the news paper anymore. it makes me so mad. guys cut their ropes, get squashed, fall to their death, become paraplegics (that i have to pay for). i got fooled this year guy tells me he's "been a climber for 10 years" i say ok come to work. does fine hip thrusting up a tree, but i can't get any production as slow as he was moving. then he went to the mar bars, ohhhh what a mistake, he must have got to far off the ground to fast or (the more likely story) he was full of s--t. dude freaks out on me and locks himself to the tree. i have to go get this a-hole. if he had been honest with me then i would have never sent him up the tree to begin with. we would have trained a while first. ohh yeah you make that look easy so it must be right. we make it look to easy. these people WORK for a living and don't want to pay some one o do the easy tree in their yard. its the same mindset that thinks paying 50-75 dollars to get a 20" stump ground is to expensive. ohh they are told where to get training and who to get it from when they buy the gear, these people don't care at all about themselves or their family. this will be a new side job (it's the way i got started three years ago. thank god for common sense and wes hopper).
they won't charge as much to do easy tree work and they will make a killing or in this guys case almost, REALLY almost get killed.
i started dropping trees around farms and out in the country doing crap jobs a regular tree service wouldn't do because they wouldn't make any money doing the job. then i got approached by the job that almost killed me, but common sense and having an iron climbers instinct saved me. i had never thought of climbing a tree to work in it. i climbed iron and this was just a side business. but in my arrogance i took the job anyway. a tall ladder, fence, and facia board on the house crushed in one cut that left me hanging thirty five feet off the ground by my fall protection from work. thank god i had the common sense to attach the lanyard on the front chest mounted d ring. well i hand over handed to the bottom of the limb and monkey slid on the bottom of the limb to the trunk where i could get my feet under me. THEN i called for my rock climbing rope and figure eight. so i quit climbing trees then and kept dropping them until i met wes. the difference between me and the guy on the news is - i would have paid for training. was i an a hole? h--l yeah i was.
this is a public forum if i want to rant about stupid people in my thread, by god this is america, i can because i have the freedom to do so. just like you have the freedom to not read it. so piss off if you think the title was crude. this is my thread not yours. i will title it any d--n way i want. welcome to america.
 
We have a pretty high level of freedom in Canada as well. Don't forget your Bald Eagles were repopulated by captured and relocated Saskatchewan eagles after the DDT die off. Your welcome.
 
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Your welcome.

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks... you buncha hoseheads.

I think the key here is public education. What self respecting Marine wouldn't believe in himself enough to try and takedown a tree. If he knew more about the variables he might have thought better of it.

We've all push our limits before, it's a climber's nature. Some of us push wrong or too far and wind up hurt. ANYBODY cutting big wood is at risk of getting struck or pinned, stuff just happens. Every homeowner injury should make the papers, it should be a public service if nothing else.
 
Thanks for this thread Jeff. It got me thinking this is the root of all evil involving urban tree care. Not only affecting public safety, but tree health, customer's view of the arborist profession, and our profits.

Some PSAs by our organizations regarding when pros are required would be appropriate.

Tree work seems to bring out the kid in men of any age. It seems an irresistable thrill. Well being the most dangerous work the least handy will still attempt it.

I know if I had a big technical tree removal and no training or proper equipment I wouldn't hesitate to get-r-done. I'd feel like a loser to pay some pros.

My question is how does an arborist work this into our marketing without offending or seeming like I'm just spreading fear for personal profit?
 
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My question is how does an arborist work this into our marketing without offending or seeming like I'm just spreading fear for personal profit?

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That is a great point! I'm with you on PSA'a along with City Foresters and city councils getting on board with the public education on when its necessary to hire someone.
 
One way to market is to rise above and stick to the positive message. Science based care, safe removals to code, etc. I'd like to find a nice way to directly attack the negative.

Yesterday I lost two precious jobs to the old retired guy down the road. Fair enough but I checked his stumps and he was falling large trees with no hinge wood in tight spots. Then driving back and forth past my work with smartass comments. Brutal.

In my market this is my competition. I don't have the time to wait for my good work to catch on as I'm sure it will. I have to push the issue but not too hard. I don't want to wait for someone to get hurt or property damage, or most importantly me to have to get a real job. Tree services don't get any leaner than mine. Pick-up and utility trailer. There must be a way.

PS edit. This deserves it's own thread. I think I'll call it Hacks and Quacks.
 
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Most any gear Ive seen comes with warnings. People should be able to choose their own destiny. Ive seen plenty of people smoke cigs when they have been proven bad.Their kids had to watch that too.
 
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