Solar panels vs. Urban Forest

CutHighnLetFly

CutHighnLetFly

Been here a while
Location
Cape Cod, MA
Does anyone else find themselves cutting down nice shade trees so that some dope that lives around a neighborhood of trees can have solar panels?
i dont sell the work, i just read the work order and complete said task. im not going to knock the sales rep on whether or not hes trying to sell pruning or something. most of these people im doing the work for are pretty set on slaying these trees, so im not sure there was much discussion to even be had.
but in an area littered with shade trees succumbing to Black Oak Gall Wasp or Winter Moth damage, its sad to be cutting down healthy and mature shade trees to allow for longer periods of sunlight, especially when you know its a short term thing because there are other trees in the area that WILL grow into the path of sunlight.
some people simply dont live somewhere where solar makes sense, unless we start topping neighbors' and woods' trees (yeah, like trees that belong to the woods) for the sake of sunlight.

someone make me feel better about this please.
or tell me you can relate to what im saying.
or just voice an opinion, im curious how other arborists feel about this.
 
We had a customer last year that we refer to as 'dipshit Jeff.' Dipshit Jeff wanted us to top a mature fir tree so that his satellite dish had a clearer shot to space. The other foreman and I basically refused to do it, but politely, and took off limbs, etc, trying to find a solution without cutting the tree in half., while explaining to him why we won't top it. His response was, ' I'm not worried about any of that because I'm going to sell the house in 3 years.' (The neighbors' pine behind the fir would have still been blocking the signal). Well, we got out of there and got paid for the work we did, no improvement on the satellite signal. I don't expect we will be hearing from dipshit Jeff in the future, but I'm not topping a mature fir so some moron can watch sportcenter.
 
I hammered a row of maples and one oak a year or two ago ... lady had spent 50K on the solar panels and was expecting 7.5K in refund from the state, but only if she had over 72%??? sunlight.. they had a gps machine that measures open sky by direction etc.. bring it around to the different panels and take a reading... She wouldn;t get paid until the trees were cut.. I like her, but not that job.. kept telling myself it was an experiment to see how the trees would respond... part of me doesn't want to find out though!
 
JontreeHI said:
We had a customer last year that we refer to as 'dipshit Jeff.' Dipshit Jeff wanted us to top a mature fir tree so that his satellite dish had a clearer shot to space. The other foreman and I basically refused to do it, but politely, and took off limbs, etc, trying to find a solution without cutting the tree in half., while explaining to him why we won't top it. His response was, ' I'm not worried about any of that because I'm going to sell the house in 3 years.' (The neighbors' pine behind the fir would have still been blocking the signal). Well, we got out of there and got paid for the work we did, no improvement on the satellite signal. I don't expect we will be hearing from dipshit Jeff in the future, but I'm not topping a mature fir so some moron can watch sportcenter.
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Some folks' lack of appreciation for trees certainly bothers me, but I have to remember that I used to be one of them. I used clear land. I would drive down the road and look at trees, thinking about how I would fell them and what not.

It wasn't until someone else impacted me enough with their values that I began to shift my own. Now I drive down the road and look for Tie-In-Points, and how I might prune branches so they don't fail.

Point is, someone else helped me along, and now I get to do the same as they did. I will always want to help people appreciate trees. Although people may not change overnight, I wouldn't underestimate any act that may trigger something good.

Use the Force, Luke!
 
If the tree owners were savvy enough to consult with an arborist first, they might find out that it's going to take an awful lot of sunlight to get that ROI when they add in the cost of tree removal or heavy pruning work, to the cost of the solar panels. Typically though, the arborist gets called after everything else is done and someone goes "Oh....trees"
 
oceans said:
Some folks' lack of appreciation for trees certainly bothers me, but I have to remember that I used to be one of them. I used clear land. I would drive down the road and look at trees, thinking about how I would fell them and what not.

It wasn't until someone else impacted me enough with their values that I began to shift my own. Now I drive down the road and look for Tie-In-Points, and how I might prune branches so they don't fail.

Point is, someone else helped me along, and now I get to do the same as they did. I will always want to help people appreciate trees. Although people may not change overnight, I wouldn't underestimate any act that may trigger something good.

Use the Force, Luke!
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You're a good man Eric, it's true that most of us first generation arbs likely didn't appreciate trees the way we do now. Dipshit Jeff sw not receptive at least at this point, but who knows in the future.
Looking for tie in points while driving makes my wife crazy!
 
I just finished a job that was for this very reason, solar access clearance he called it. I am not a fan of removing shade trees, but they were mature. Is there a flip side to this in saying they are mature, and he is going to replant with dogwoods and such to add back. Also the neighborhood is heavily wooded and not much in the way of tree maintenance. I may be justifying here, but solar panels are only going to be bigger. He will be set up to be off the grid, which helps in reducing power plants emissions? The whole satellite thing does bother me, that's TV, solar is power.
 
yeah merle thats nuts man. ive had to do heading or reduction cuts (basically light topping) to a customers' neighbors' tree because legally they have deeded rights to a ocean view.

Daniel, i was doing a job recently where the guy was so happy because after the removals we did he finally would be at the 70% duration of sunlight needed to get government incentives for the conversion. but only for so long because of the young forest growing behind the line of trees we removed.

Tigersaw, no need to justify it, because i suppose if one lives in the appropriate spot, i think its a good thing. but with all good comes bad i suppose. are people who are putting panels on their roof and exposing their house to full sun all day going to be pumping the A/C all summer long? i imagine that making a house pretty hot.
also, and not that this is anyones thing to consider when thinking about solar conversion, but with the government helping so many people trying to go off the grid, are they going to eventually help the big power companies fund maintaining the existing grid?
im not against solar, or wind farms or whatever. its just that when trying to work with / capture / harvest what the world does / provides, one must look at the big picture because considering what's best. but its a f'in huge picture so i think that'd be pretty tough.
 
Funny, around here none of the solar companies will even do business with you if the trees are in the way. They come out for a preliminary inspection, set up their instruments to determine how much sun the panels will get and when, and then tell the potential customer "Call us back if or when those 2 trees aren't there." Certainly a lot more respectable than all the companies mentioned above who sell the panels and then the homeowners realize they have to deal with tree issues.
 
CutHighnLetFly said:
Tigersaw, no need to justify it, because i suppose if one lives in the appropriate spot, i think its a good thing. but with all good comes bad i suppose. are people who are putting panels on their roof and exposing their house to full sun all day going to be pumping the A/C all summer long? i imagine that making a house pretty hot.
also, and not that this is anyones thing to consider when thinking about solar conversion, but with the government helping so many people trying to go off the grid, are they going to eventually help the big power companies fund maintaining the existing grid?
im not against solar, or wind farms or whatever. its just that when trying to work with / capture / harvest what the world does / provides, one must look at the big picture because considering what's best. but its a f'in huge picture so i think that'd be pretty tough.
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CutHigh- I think you're on to something here. What is the carbon offset of a mature tree vs. solar panels? There's got to be some data out there. Trees sequester carbon, plus they decrease solar degradation of roofing and paint on homes. Those things plus your AC point I'd bet have way more value than the energy savings.
 
Reed i think what matters to most people doing the conversion in the end is the $$$. they dont care if they use more energy if they are using less dollars. ive come to the conclusion when it comes to solar, people are trying to be "green" they are trying to save "green"($).
Jeff, i havent seen people get panels installed and then have to do the work. but i do think that when the energy people come out and do an inspection or assessment, they are assessing the suns path and duration on an area for right NOW, and dont take the future (10+ years) into consideration. one of these people i worked with had a young white & pitch pine / oak forest behind him. the trees are not in the way of sunlight now, but they will be, and they are in no mans land so i dont see him paying to legally have those trees dealt with.
Jon, good for you guys and your employer to stand your ground on that situation with the Spruce trees. Short term thinking misses the whole picture. those trees will be someone else's property but will decrease the value of his house i would assume, no?

There is a program put out by the US forestry service that puts a numeric $ value on trees on your property using google maps. can someone post a link to that or better explain it? i think that is a GREAT program. it can show what a large shade tree saves in energy costs and storm water run off, stuff like that. its really neat. this gentleman Dave Bloniarz (sorry if your out there Dave. i know i butchered the spelling of his name) showed it to my class when I was in school, but the stuff i had on it are in a box somewhere, to be found when im like 50 probably. (not that thats old, old timers...)
 
Yes, property value, liability, (poorly enforced) city ordinances, he wasn't interested.
I saw a fair amount of the solar question in Hawaii, and I agree that it appeared to be more about saving green than being green
 
When I moved home to my small town in NY, I encountered these kinds of problems quite often. As I worked for 2 companies, I was, in a sense, "stuck" doing whatever work was sold. Taking down trees that were totally unnecessary. I try my best to show the companies I was climbing for the "proper" way to look at the job, but sometimes you can only teach by example, not with words.

As time went by I began to realize how fearful people are of the tree going through their home. They don't realize the beauty of professional pruning, and the ill effects and hazards that topping will have in the future growth of the tree. Nor have I seen any tree workers out here properly trained in pruning. Rip cuts and stub city.

Luckily, I have my own gig now, and I am selling a hell of a lot more pruning (which I was beginning to miss tremendously). On the bright side, my removal skills are sharper than a brand new chain.

It's all changing though. People are becoming more aware of how important trees really are. Thanks to you guys.
 
That was a little off topic, but on the solar panel issue, I kind of chuckle at the removing of mature trees for the energy....because it is going to go right back into the Air conditioning unit to keep the home cool as it bakes in the sun :ROFLMAO:
 
Mike, I can't tell you how many people have had us remove a tree, for any of a number of reasons, and then later commented with complete confusion, "Man has my electric bill gone up!" Likewise, I'm always amazed when I see new houses being built and they put the a/c compressor on the south side of the house in full sun.
 
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Jeff said:
Mike, I can't tell you how many people have had us remove a tree, for any of a number of reasons, and then later commented with complete confusion, "Man has my electric bill gone up!" QUOTE]

Around here I wonder if thats the objective. Xcel energy has a mandate to get a percentage of its power from renewable sources. If the panels produce more they meet the mandate. Then in summer when the AC is cranked they get to charge for that energy. Best of both worlds?
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