JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
Bingo! I bet you're right.
Show off them splices
- Thread starter Jman
- Start date
Bingo! I bet you're right.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Yes.. All Gear still does make that. It considered it at one point.. Neopro.
So it's slips when spliced using Samson instruction? Ahh.. Yeah.. that kinda concerning..
Was that even after being lock stitched or whiplocked?
Yeah idk.. i was pretty specific in my questions.. but i guess its a possibility they misunderstood.. it wasn't All Gear i was talking to, but one of their vendors.. who I've gotten legitimate bad info from before..
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Whip stitching only holds the splice together under low load, enough
lockstitches probably would though. I recently tried splicing Marlow's Viper core into another cover. The final bury went in too easily so I added stitching to help hold it together, my first attempt at perimeter stitching.
lockstitches probably would though. I recently tried splicing Marlow's Viper core into another cover. The final bury went in too easily so I added stitching to help hold it together, my first attempt at perimeter stitching.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
How do you know it went in too easy? Was it too easy because you took out too much cover, had too much cover slack.. or was the core just too small for the combination.. i guess along the same theory of the last question, i could ask the opposite about the cover, was it too big for the core?
Regardless.. after considering those factors, how do you know when it's too easy, especially if your mixing & matching..
Could you just pull it out without manipulation?
Perimeter stitching.. I'll have to look into that. Hard to see with your black on black.
The final bury went in too easily, there wasn't much of a struggle. There is a couple inches of full diameter cover and core before tapering which needs to be larger for this cover. Rather than scrap it, I added the stitching to give it another thousand pounds of strength.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Right on.. i gotchya.. good idea on the stitching for sure..
Along the lines of what you did.. i sometimes see deals on small diameter Vectran i get tempted to mess around with adding covers, to try & make something like bee-line or those smaller Teufelberger vectran loop thimble setups... but i look into what the covers cost on sailing sites & it blows my mind.. $2-$3 pr ft.. Maybe im just looking in the wrong places.. Probably best for me to just leave the idea alone anyways.
On a different topic i just saw something that got the gears grinding on what it's actual useful purpose would be..
I seen this over at Sherrill..
Besides the fact that most instructions would ellude to this being a no-go, how are they even making it useful.. i would imagine 90% of the 26 inches would be hard as a rock.. Did they somehow do a ton of cover removal after the whipped area & create a super thin x-over? Maybe no x-over at all..? Wait, but then it would be all different widths.. I just dont see how anyone is using this as a hitch or even a 6 wrap prusik..... I've messed around with these shorter 16 strand E2E's & yeah, if coreless with no x-over i could see it being wrapped around a host rope, but the consensus has always been 16 strand has to have a x-over.. & with one it's stiff as a board.
I could see this e2e being coreless & sewn, but this splice dealio has got me scratching my head.
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You really don't need heat resistance in both the core and cover, unless you prefer it for a friction hitch, which might see longer sliding on rope. Accessory cord cover works nice over Vectran cores. I recently came up with an easy way to make a compact, thimble Prusik, with the soft shackle.
Both sections of the dog bone connection are soft shackles.
Both sections of the dog bone connection are soft shackles.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Woah someone's been busy.. You got all sorts of tricks up your sleeve these days..
As far as the vectran, i was just thinking of it as a way to get a smaller cordage thats stronger than your typical poly/poly or poly/nylon double braid or kern.. heat wasnt much of a factor.
So what are you using in those soft shackles? Is that dyneema?
You know I'm going to ask you about my previous past & that 16 strand.. Am i missing something there or is that thing going to be stiff as a board?
Oh.. btw.. i came across some Cordage by Maxim the other night online I was curious about... IIRC.. it's called Canyon Elite.. Shit looks identical to Ocean Poly but is 9.5m & has higher beaking strengths, over 8k.. Im not sure about the elongation but it was under their static section & i believe it's similar.. IDK.. maybe i haven't seen it used but anyone for a reason.. just thought I'd mention it. U can get it with Dyneema or Technora in the poly cover.
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Yes, these are dyneema soft shackles. FSE Roblines Ocean 5000 is one of the strongest of the dyneema lines
I would imagine that 16 std would be stiff, especially when it is so short. The middle, near the mark, is the only section that looks like the normal diameter. They must do a short crossover, or the whole cord would be the same diameter, if it was tapered the whole length of the bury.
A lot of companies are making canyoning lines with various materials. The higher prices probably limit their use in tree work. That, and usually they're not sold by the foot. My lanyard is Bluewater's Canyonline, technora cover, and either polyester or nylon core, and very static.
I would imagine that 16 std would be stiff, especially when it is so short. The middle, near the mark, is the only section that looks like the normal diameter. They must do a short crossover, or the whole cord would be the same diameter, if it was tapered the whole length of the bury.
A lot of companies are making canyoning lines with various materials. The higher prices probably limit their use in tree work. That, and usually they're not sold by the foot. My lanyard is Bluewater's Canyonline, technora cover, and either polyester or nylon core, and very static.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Oh wow, that is pretty strong.
I was just curious about the 16 strand as i have a 10mm ocean ring loop i happen to make rather short, only to realize how stiff & un-useable it became because of that.. Almost impossible to get that last prusik wrap..
Hey, can we talk about Samson's 12 strand e2e specs got a moment.?
Because of the way it's worded, i get tripped up everytime.. i end up with tails hanging out the x-over that are rather long. I would rather have that wasted Cordage added to the actual length of the whole thing.
Where i get tripped up is early on, step #2. It's like it's missing a reference point, the point at which you want to pull important measurements from.
So if you look at the pic below & you want to end up with a 3/8ths 33in e2e using 80inches of Cordage, how many inches away from center mark A are you placing Mark B? That leg of rope is Dynamic in the sense that once it has a bury in it, it's no longer the length you started with. It shortens up & you end up with longer x-over tails..
Also, when they tell you to measure 1-1/4, where are you supposed to measuring from? Yeah it says "from the inside of the eye, measure 1-1/4in".... But from what point & towards what end? It's showing a mark that isn't referenced as anything..(i think this is the main issue I'm having out of the two)
I know this sounds super stupid, but i think it's the reason I'm ending up with longer x-over tails. It's as if the instructions are missing two important factors to allow them to cover other diameters & i cant find anyone else who provides the literature.
Similar problems occur when trying to do 12 strand endless loops.. but that's a different question for a different day.
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The ends are over lapped 1 1/2", center the over lapped ends at point A. Folding the cord gives the insides of the eyes to measure points B and C. Samson has worked out how much expansion there will be, so it should work out. If this is the splice for Icetail, it might still be incorrect on the buried overlaps, and result in a bump in the middle.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Dang Brock.. i thought i replied to your answer.. I know i typed it out at the least...
Anyhow.. yes.. that's how i do it too.. i just find it a pain matching it all up & if Samson included one more set of set of measurements dedicated to that specific length i think i would have saved allot of trouble the first time around..
I keep asking questions here but never post up when i finish... so here's the end result of what i believe my last question was pertaining to. Wait no.. it was for a Pinto Prusik.. I'll post that too.
Finally got this ring thing down to a science.. I've made a few of these but always get too greedy tapering the x-over & end up hollow... this one came out good up top but then ran short on my twine..
Is it ok to whip lock & lock stitch like below? While i was lock stitching one side of this, flopping & flexing the opposite "brummel" (technically a lock stitch splice), it backed out/slacked up tiny bit exposing one of the tapered stands i must have cut too far back. So i used a whiplock to contain it from getting any worse while manipulating it... Then, it just didn't look right to me doing both methods on one side & not the other so i just did both like that.
Had some Veritas sitting around forever i wasnt sure what to use for.. came up with a E2E. Pretty nice to splice, although the strands are really hard to see (for my eyes anyways), the cover was otherwise really nice to work with, ton of room available to get your initial core buried. I think i actually used a tubular fid. Of course my splice wouldn't be complete without a single caveat.. Ummmm yeah.. i went to crazy with the eyes.. I gave new meaning to tight eye. I do like them tight though for orientation.. at least for a bit.
Will might as well keep going here.. Made this thing a while back but just terminated it earlier this morning.
Got a steal on some Hi-Vee the other day with intention on trying the more expensive Crosby Connectors (which i feel are more fluid/faster) but, saw the Notch on sale for 30 so i went that route instead. Figured if i don't like them on there permanently I'll just cut them off as there was an extra 5ft in the Cordage.. That way i won't cringe having 115 instead of 120..lol.
Made a Beast Ultra & a Rig Saver as well.. to lazy to go out to car & I'm tired of typing.. I'll post up later..
Lastly.. anyone got any deals on 3/4 Tenex right now? I got a Safebloc i want to get done.
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Your problem on the Icetail crossover might be due to the two tails not laying exactly on top of each other. When you bury the tails after tapering, they should just disappear inside as the last of the slack is used up. If they disappear and there is still more slack left, they won't match up, leaving a smaller diameter in the center.
I like to whip/lock stitch right at the bury of uncovered 12 strand splices to keep the bury from being snagged and pulled out while in use.
If the eyes are spliced too tight, they are constantly being forced apart by the carabiner. Larger eyes with stitching or whipping to shrink them might be better.
I like to whip/lock stitch right at the bury of uncovered 12 strand splices to keep the bury from being snagged and pulled out while in use.
If the eyes are spliced too tight, they are constantly being forced apart by the carabiner. Larger eyes with stitching or whipping to shrink them might be better.
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Hey Brock.. How ya been.
Yes, the I'm pretty sure everything is on top of each other, but having slack left after they disappear is exactly what's happened in the past.. It was always a combination of not understanding those instructions, then because of that not being able to plan ahead accordingly.. that or just getting greedy with the taper & then one other time just not having enough Cordage to complete it to begin with.. The ones i posted came out good as far as the sizing goes though..
I may try to redo the whipping on that Icetail Ring, hopefully without distorting the Brummel.. kinda iffy on whether or not it would get all picked..
Regardless, I've always been uncertain on whether to lockstitch through the brummels, you just mentioned whiplocking at the bury, which makes sense, but what about lockstitching through the Brummel? Is that legit or depend on scenario? I feel as if there's a possibility to secure an uneven areas of strands causing it to act/flex weird, maybe kink/herniate..?
So, if there eyes are to tight is that a bad scenario? "Constantly forcing apart".. isn't that kinda what happens anyways when a biner goes in.. kinda? Regardless, i ran a few different biners through & it opened up a bit, just snug now, like all my other hand spliced eyes.
Good suggestion on whipping the eye to tighten.. I'll keep that in mind.
RyTheTreeGuy
Branched out member
- Location
- Canada
Got tired of my half assed knotted foot loop. Decided to make myself a custom loop out of 1/2" tenex I had lying around
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Well.. that's quite industrious Ry! I don't think you'll be blowing that thing out! Way way more fluid in it's function than the hack job tie down strap i tried to use the other day!
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RyTheTreeGuy
Branched out member
- Location
- Canada
Lol...ya a bit over kill, but I had the material lying around for a while and did a climb the day before and for real pissed with my foot loop...My foot loop is stronger then some of my rigging slings
Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Yup.. sometimes getting pissed off is all the motivation you need.. Fully grown adult temper tantrums sometimes lead to great innovation! The front seat of my pickup has seen it's fair share.. but unfortunately, so have my neighbors.. lol..
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Jimmycrackcorn
Participating member
- Location
- Boston
Here's a quickie question..
Anyone ever try using a ring loop like this for a compact attatchable secondary lanyard postioner..? Like, on the other end of your 2in1 or DEDA?
It's really really slick on poly.. The Tritech is a bit harder to slide. Regardless, there's 0 sitback & pretty compact considering there's a snap involved.
Side note- I'm really digging that new Petzl Eashook Open.. opens up allot of options for lanyards & pre-sewn hitches..
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Anyone ever try using a ring loop like this for a compact attatchable secondary lanyard postioner..? Like, on the other end of your 2in1 or DEDA?
It's really really slick on poly.. The Tritech is a bit harder to slide. Regardless, there's 0 sitback & pretty compact considering there's a snap involved.
Side note- I'm really digging that new Petzl Eashook Open.. opens up allot of options for lanyards & pre-sewn hitches..
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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