Shop talk

[Fivepoints]

What kind of electric service do you all have? I'm not going to pay for 3 phase, not necessary at this point.

Is 200 amp enough? All LED lights will certainly reduce the draw there. What big draws am I missing;
Air compressor
Welder
AC in office
Big fans in shop
Heater (source TBD, but still gotta move the air - unless I heat the floor)
Fridge/water cooler
Well pump

Keep in mind that a lot of industrial equipment runs off 3 phase. 3 phase welders and air compressors are cheaper used than single phase. I bought a 10 hp ingersol 120gal compressor for $500 recently due to it being 3 phase. It's about 5 or 6 years old and in great shape. For the most part, the used market just isn't there for 3 phase used equipment. Most factories are just going to buy a new one. Also the amps per phase it lower so depending on how the bill is figured, it may save you money every month. Large building a/c just about has to be 3 phase due to the power requirements.

 

[Redmech]

Personally for a one or two guy shop, 200 amp service is plenty. I’m a heavy equipment mechanic that has a machine shop on the side. And now have turned into a hobbyist tree climber arborist. In my shop I have a 30HP phase converter, that runs a mill, surface grinder and my biggest load is a 15 HP Lathe. If you start having 6 guys all running large machines, you might need more than 200 amp service. Most all of your heavy loads are ran at different times, on electric motors, startup is what pulls the most amps. Congrats on getting a shop, I just went they building mine 2 years ago.

Ross,

And three phase would be wonderful to have to come in from the line if you have a need for it, I wish I had it, but I’m a ways away from it and I can run a phase converter much more economically than paying to have three phase brought to me.

Three phase machinery much of the time is very inexpensive due to the smaller amount of people that can power the tools.

 

[ATH]

Progress:
Found a demolition company that said they'd do it all (including haul away) for $1400. I had thought about doing it ourselves (a friend offered to help). I figured if we got a couple of roll offs, we could load everything into those. Because of the weight of the blocks, I was thinking dump fees along would be about that. I'm assuming they are going to grind and resell the blocks. Works for me...whatever they want to do with them!

Settled on a builder for pole barn. Everybody locally I have talked to about pole barns gave me one name. There are several others who build them, but nothing but glowing reviews of this guy. His estimate came in right about budget so I told him we're gonna do it. Probably later in the fall before he has time for my project.

 

[ATH]

So, 80' long. Either 50 or 60' wide (only about $6000 extra for the additional 10'). 18' tall is about $2500 more than 16', so we'll most likely do that.

We were talking layout. Tentatively, garage doors will be on the south side. I'm thinking office on the east side of the building. We talked about: 14x14' door; 14x14' door, 10'x10' door; 10'x10' door; man door opening into office (the east-most 16' of the building).

Couple of questions for feedback:
1) Is 14' wide necessary, or should I see about making those 12' wide by 14' tall? Resale value may be a reason to keep them at 14'...???
2) Does it make sense to do the (2) 10' doors then the (2) 14' doors (closer to the office), then put another 10' door on the north side of the west wall? That would add another door, the other 10' bays would T into this bay. I'm thinking I'd swap the 10' and 14' doors to do that as it is more likely equipment in the 14' bays would be longer.

like this:


or this:


Other layout things I'm thinking about:
Work benches along the office wall.
Tool/equipment storage along the north wall..maybe west wall.

 

[Redmech]

When I built my shop, I did one 16’x16’ door, and one 10’ wide 12’ tall door on my side wall. If there is one thing I think I did wrong was only going 10’ wide on the side door. My Kenworth service truck will fit thru height wise just fine, but 10’ wide is really too small. 11 or 12’ wide would of been better. My service truck barely goes thru it, I have to fold mirrors in and watch everything very closely. If you are gonna run anything bigger than a pickup truck, 10’ wide is too small. Just my thoughts

 

[Redmech]

Also price doors early on, they can be a big expense.

 

[colb]

It's official...I closed on/took possession of the property today!

Here is what the 5 ac looks like (almost the entire 1st hole besides tee box)

View attachment 68561

And the current shop:

View attachment 68560

Looks like a par 4 dogleg right... Hope you're a slicer and not a hooker.

 

[Reach]

To me it seems the door layout comes down to the inside dimensions of the shop - longest bay should have the biggest door - and the layout of the parking lot, so that you can be sure there will be enough space to line up your biggest trucks with the big doors to get in easily. We made a mistake there, to get in our big door with anything real long, you have to turn around in the parking lot and then back in from an angle...

As far as door width, we are 12’ wide, and while it is sufficient, 14’ would sure be nice sometimes, especially if your mechanic is not an expert at backing trailers to get them inside the smaller doors.

 

[GreenstoneVT]

Personally for a one or two guy shop, 200 amp service is plenty. I’m a heavy equipment mechanic that has a machine shop on the side. And now have turned into a hobbyist tree climber arborist. In my shop I have a 30HP phase converter, that runs a mill, surface grinder and my biggest load is a 15 HP Lathe. If you start having 6 guys all running large machines, you might need more than 200 amp service. Most all of your heavy loads are ran at different times, on electric motors, startup is what pulls the most amps. Congrats on getting a shop, I just went they building mine 2 years ago.

Ross,

And three phase would be wonderful to have to come in from the line if you have a need for it, I wish I had it, but I’m a ways away from it and I can run a phase converter much more economically than paying to have three phase brought to me.

Three phase machinery much of the time is very inexpensive due to the smaller amount of people that can power the tools.

The drop price for 3-phase is ridiculous. I had looked into it for my wood shop. For what I paid for my converter I could have gotten all of 2 feet from the pole. You need to be playing a very long return game or using a lot of heavy machinery to make it pay off. Only possible downside of the phase converter is where you are located on the grid. If you are off on a dead end you may be limited in size of the converter due to high loads messing with service past your point. Neighbors can get annoyed with brownouts.

 

[Luke Haas]

My theory on garage doors is... you can always pull little vehicles through big doors, but you can't pull big vehicles through little doors.

 

[ATH]

Met with builder again. We decided to push the 14' doors all the way to the east. Then 10' doors. Office will be on the west side. I think I'll put a small door on the north side of the west wall. This will cut into office space, but I'll still have about 16'x34' set aside for that - plus height for a second story.

 

[ATH]

Progress update:

Building is down. $1400 to demolish and haul away***



Signed a contract last week for a 60x80'x18' pole barn. (2) 14x14 doors; (2) 10x10 doors all on the south side. Decided to do an 8x10 door on the north end of the west side...just another place to get small equipment in and out - thinking maybe the air compressor goes there. For now, I'll just have concrete where the existing 30x80 slab is and the other half will be a stone floor. Some day in the future, we'll put 3" on top of that slab and 5" on the other half. Would do that now...but apparently, they quit giving concrete away a week before I signed the contract.

Builder is booked, so it will be closer to the end of the year before he gets to mine. At least I hope. Told me he had to send his crew home at 10 a.m. today because the trusses didn't show up. Called the rep and they told him it may be two more weeks. Maybe longer if they decide to keep giving everybody on unemployment $600 extra per week!

***Side note: How do you run that much equipment for $1400/day??? big track hoe, skid loader, 2 big dump trucks, and a huge roll off container truck. I'm not complaining - at all! - just can't make the math work in my mind. They did haul off the block and will grind/re-use that. My wife took the boys out to watch and said they were setting aside all the metal, so they'll get a few $ for that, but won't be much as there wasn't much there!

 

[Serf Life]

How’s it coming along @ATH ?

 

[ATH]

Getting materials has been tough (and I'm not blaming the builder...it has been industry wide) so some of his other builds are a little behind. He has had to send guys home because he can't get materials. He said last year was his busiest yet...but he will end up with a loss because several buildings are not completed (sounds like garage doors have been his biggest obstacle) so he hasn't been paid for them. I talked with him 2 weeks ago and he said they should be ready to start mine end of Feb/early March.

I've been researching/planning light fixtures and layouts this week. Hope to figure out the rest of the electrical over next couple of days. I'm doing some of this legwork on my own to save electrician time (and me money!). Got a quote to install temporary power of +/-$600 which would then be pulled for the permanent power. Builder said a 3000-4000W generator would take care of his needs --- that just got delivered today. I spent $700...but now I have a generator for the long-term rather than a panel board that just gets torn down 4 weeks after it went up.

I've tried to find somebody to come dig trenches for the downspout tiles, but nobody seems to want a job that small. If anybody has spare time and a small backhoe, come on over - I'm hiring for a day! Will probably just end up renting the hoe and pay a friend to dig it.

I'm excited to get the stuff out of my garage - a month away sounds like it is just around the corner!

 

[ATH]

Got an update today.... Good news / bad news kinda update:

Talked to the guy I've contracted to build my pole barn. We signed back in July. I knew it would be after the first of the year...everybody I talked to said he is the best guy around to do a pole barn, so I was willing to wait.

The good news...he is ready to start in 2-3 weeks.

The bad news...you've all see material prices, right? He is saying the material cost for the building has gone up by $20K...but he is willing to do it for $10K more than the estimate provided in July (there are terms in the contract for material price adjustments...).

I know that material prices are through the roof, so I'm not mad at him or doubt what he is saying. Heck...just go look at Lowe's or Menard's. 2x4 was $2.78 a year ago and is now over $6. Just kinda sucks. He said I can wait it out if I want and build later. He has plenty of other work to do, so is not pushing me to build now. However, in another conversation we had he was telling me that steel is hard to get now, and his suppliers have told him it may be near impossible this summer. I've read mixed views on a few forecasting websites...some predicting a dip in price while others are saying 2021 will see demand outpace production for the year.

So I think I have to assume that if I delay to try to save the money, it is probably more than a year out.

 

[hseII]

Got an update today.... Good news / bad news kinda update:

Talked to the guy I've contracted to build my pole barn. We signed back in July. I knew it would be after the first of the year...everybody I talked to said he is the best guy around to do a pole barn, so I was willing to wait.

The good news...he is ready to start in 2-3 weeks.

The bad news...you've all see material prices, right? He is saying the material cost for the building has gone up by $20K...but he is willing to do it for $10K more than the estimate provided in July (there are terms in the contract for material price adjustments...).

I know that material prices are through the roof, so I'm not mad at him or doubt what he is saying. Heck...just go look at Lowe's or Menard's. 2x4 was $2.78 a year ago and is now over $6. Just kinda sucks. He said I can wait it out if I want and build later. He has plenty of other work to do, so is not pushing me to build now. However, in another conversation we had he was telling me that steel is hard to get now, and his suppliers have told him it may be near impossible this summer. I've read mixed views on a few forecasting websites...some predicting a dip in price while others are saying 2021 will see demand outpace production for the year.

So I think I have to assume that if I delay to try to save the money, it is probably more than a year out.

Do it now.




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[Serf Life]

Agreed, prices have kept going up and our builder just said copper wiring is now climbing. Get it built and ease your work flow and maintenance etc.

 

[owScott]

Just finished my 30x50 pole building. What a hassle especially the 14x16 roll up doors. I will get some pic to share. Worth it when its done. Nice step for my company.

 

[VenasNursery]

Just finished my 30x50 pole building. What a hassle especially the 14x16 roll up doors. I will get some pic to share. Worth it when its done. Nice step for my company.

How much were those doors?
Looking to update mine to roll up soon same size

 

[owScott]

How much were those doors?
Looking to update mine to roll up soon same size

$1800 each installed with electric opener. I have 1 on each gable end. Drive in 1 out the other.