Shop talk

[ATH]

Closing on a property next Monday - been looking for over 2 years. Many were: too expensive, too much acreage and they won't divide (meaning too expensive), too far from home, zoned wrong, etc... This is 5 acres in an unzoned township exactly 5 miles from home.

It is an old golf course shop. Unfortunately, the building needs to come down, but the slab is in good shape.

The current slab is 30x80. I was thinking of having a pole barn built maybe 50x80. To save some $ up front, I'll probably do a gravel floor for the other 20' with the plan to concrete it in the future.

Looking for all kinds of input / Any tips you have!

I know...depends on what I need to put in it. Planning to grow to 2, but not likely more than 3 crews out of this location.

Office won't be there for now...but probably some day.

Is 50x80 the right size?

how high? I'm thinking 14'. But if I do that, why not go to 18' and have the option to do a mezzanine for more storage and/or office space? (but some trusses allow for a smaller second story...so maybe 14' is enough)

I've had a couple of brief conversations with builders, but need to have more serious discussions.

(anybody want a few tons of old cinder blocks? They will be there for the taking!)

 

[Reach]

50x80 is a pretty nice size shop, I wish ours was that big! Township zoning regulations...

Go higher, at least 16’ inside, but 18-20’ is better. Maybe you don’t need it now, but think future - a log truck or legal-limit chip truck is 13’ 6” tall, so a minimum 14’ door is necessary to get them in. Some room to lift the bed to work underneath is needed too, as is overhead space for stacking your materials and equipment on pallet racking with your forklift.

When you pour the new floor, install pex tubing so you can heat the shop, or at least that side, with water radiant in the floor. Theres nothing better for working on equipment in the winter than a nice warm floor, and even a warm truck, if you leave it inside overnight!

I can come up with all kinds of other ideas, what do you want to know?

 

[Treetopflyer]

Sea boxes mounted up with pole barn style coverings to mount in between for covered parking and the seas boxes are pretty hard core for safe storage.. I see people building house out or them so I figure an office could be sweet too.. good luck with it! Sounds cool..

 

[ATH]

I've been in a few radiant heated floors. In my dream world, I'd pour 3" over the existing slab when pouring new just to add the PEX.

All kinds of things bouncing around my head...I'll take anything you've got. Some will fit, some won't.

*No water on the property now (I guess they washed equipment at the club house, which seems odd). I will need that for sprayer. It is close enough to home, I can keep filling here. I was thinking of collecting rain water off of the roof or perhaps digging a small pond (to throw some fish in too). Last night I was looking at well logs for other properties in the immediate area, and they are 50' or less and +/-20 GMP, with a few lower but several more. On the south end of the golf course, it looks like there was a 47' well dig with 8" casing producing 300 GPM! (or was that a clerical error?). So now I'm thinking a decent collection/storage system is going to be 75% of the cost of a well.

*I don't want to be a nursery, but will probably grow some trees that I have trouble finding. Need to develop a relationship with somebody providing liner stock in small quantities...

PS: Anybody planning to come to pick up the remnants of the cinder blocks, plan to take some Siberian elm firewood with you. I'll cut it down and buck it up, but you gotta split it! Getting those down will be good training for my new hire (he has some climbing experience...but needs more).

 

[ATH]

Sea boxes mounted up with pole barn style coverings to mount in between for covered parking and the seas boxes are pretty hard core for safe storage.. I see people building house out or them so I figure an office could be sweet too.. good luck with it! Sounds cool..

I thought about buying one to put out there for a "tool shed" while things get built (and to get some junk out of my garage ASAP)...

 

[flushcut]

Best bet is to befriend a nursery and buy from them when they place an order for what you are looking for. Most major supply houses only want large orders as far as getting a good price is concerned.

 

[ATH]

I have a good relationship with a nursery...but that sounds like a potentially awkward conversation:
Hey....can I tag on to your order so I can not buy trees from you in a few years?

 

[flushcut]

Beer often makes the conversation easier.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

YOu're in an enviable position. Most of the time a real estate purchase taps out all of the money.

Like other said..go up not out. Plan for expansion.

Could you plan a modular build? Concentrate your money now on a perfect shop on the slab foot print. Delay the additional gravel space build for now? Have the first part built with an eye towards expansion?

Run plenty of four plex electrical outlets. Ceiling drops too.

Some sort of security system. My guess is that blue tooth cameras makes it easier these days over wiring communication wires. Not sure which is more dependable.

Don't forget to plumb compressed air lines.

Solar has to be on your mind too.

Facebook Marketplace is a great way to get rid of the old blocks and wood.

Ohhh...driveway building too. This should be known by any contractor putting in gravel drives...just in case though.

Years ago I kept my equipment at a buddies farm. the soil was clay. When he had his driveway improved he had geotextile fabric laid down before laying on the Class Five crushed gravel. Even after a lot of rain the drives where the fabirc was used never got sticky. There were some parts around the sides or back of barns that would get sticky to pickups because the fabric wasn't underneath.

 

[ATH]

Beer often makes the conversation easier.

 

[ATH]

You're in an enviable position. Most of the time a real estate purchase taps out all of the money.
I'm almost there! Spent a little more on the land that I had hoped...but that it has the slab and existing driveway helps with overall project cost. Not going to borrow more than 1/2 of the construction cost, so will keep it bare bones to start.

Like other said..go up not out. Plan for expansion.

Could you plan a modular build? Concentrate your money now on a perfect shop on the slab foot print. Delay the additional gravel space build for now? Have the first part built with an eye towards expansion?
With the slab being 80' long, I am not sure it makes sense to build shorter than that??? Because of the direction the rafters will run, it would be more difficult to add width later. Will talk to builder about ideas. Maybe an L-shaped building will work for a long-term expansion plan. It would be nice to build a little more "full featured", but smaller now rather than just a shell with a lot of space.

Run plenty of four plex electrical outlets. Ceiling drops too.
Will plan for that capability, but for now, I'll probably start with fewer to save upfront cost. Add more as we grow into it. (at least that is my plan...but I'm here because I'm open to ideas!).

Some sort of security system. My guess is that blue tooth cameras makes it easier these days over wiring communication wires. Not sure which is more dependable.
It doesn't look like wired systems are as complicated as they used to be and probably more reliable? Have looked at these: https://wyze.com/wyze-cam.html along with an outdoor box: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07TXFB...olid=3097XIB8H8FAE&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it but not that much less than a wired system: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B085447...olid=3097XIB8H8FAE&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Will get at least 6 or 8 cameras to put around - looking at each door and the driveway. Enough lights, but don't want to annoy the neighbors (2 or 3 residences across the street)!

Don't forget to plumb compressed air lines.
PVC...right?
(Great idea...I hadn't thought of that. Probably won't initially for cost, again - but will make sure that is part of the future planning. I need to keep those in mind as we design)

Solar has to be on your mind too.
I've thought about that a little. There is already a meter there and rates are pretty cheap here. Also, the electric co-op development director has spent a lot of time helping me look and giving guidance. We may also be their "pilot company" for a new revolving loan program encouraging business expansion within the service area. Lower interest loan than banks will offer and won't have to put the house up as collateral (not that losing it would be an issue with the debt:equity ratio the property will have...but not including the house will make the wife a lot more relaxed!). All that to say, I'll run a meter initially! Plus, I won't have a big power draw (at least initially) with all LED lighting; maybe just a small insulated climate controlled room to keep a few things from freezing and a place to cool down to take a break; a water pump for whatever system I settle on. Payback on solar would be a long way out. Again...something to put in the "future folder" as we draw more power.

Facebook Marketplace is a great way to get rid of the old blocks and wood.

Ohhh...driveway building too. This should be known by any contractor putting in gravel drives...just in case though.

Years ago I kept my equipment at a buddies farm. the soil was clay. When he had his driveway improved he had geotextile fabric laid down before laying on the Class Five crushed gravel. Even after a lot of rain the drives where the fabirc was used never got sticky. There were some parts around the sides or back of barns that would get sticky to pickups because the fabric wasn't underneath.
Yeah...one of the demolition contractors I talked to thought perhaps we could lay it all out and run over it with a sheepfoot compactor. then put smaller stone on top of it. Good idea to use the geotextile with that. I called another who has a portable crusher, but they said it would be more costly to bring it on site for such a relatively small project.

Appreciate the thoughts!

 

[owScott]

Appreciate the thoughts!

In the process of having a 50x30x16 built. 14x16 rollup doors cement slab floor. I am planning ahead so i can put a grapple or small crane inside to work on. Sick of wrenching in the dirt cold and heat. Looking forward to it. Really will be a big improvement in being able to do work on equipment at night and winter.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Compressed air should never go through PVC. If PVC fails it turns into sharp pieces which are very dangerous

There are some plastics used for airlines. Do your research. You’ll need to have dryers and filters too.

All fun planning! Easier to put wires or airlines in before inside sheathing goes up

Very cool to be working with your utility contractor.

I put up security lights at a shop. To be more neighbor friendly the lights faced from the property line towards my shop

 

[Benjo75]

Have at least one section with a high ceiling. May need to raise the boom on the bucket truck up a little to get to a cylinder. Also a moveable hoist is invaluable.

 

[Reach]

Have at least one section with a high ceiling. May need to raise the boom on the bucket truck up a little to get to a cylinder. Also a moveable hoist is invaluable.

Yes to both! Our ceiling is too low, and our fixed hoist is nice, but movable would be far better!

 

[Treezybreez]

I would check out metal buildings. You might be surprised how much cheaper they are than stick built.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I’ve liked this design. It seems to enclose just enough high ceiling space It seems like it could be designed to be added onto in stages.

https://harpersteelbuildings.com/images/steel-buildings-3.jpg

 

[ATH]

I would check out metal buildings. You might be surprised how much cheaper they are than stick built.

I've sent message to a steel building contactor. I think that would be my preference, bit we'll see how it compares to a pole building. I doubt traditional stick built is even on the table.

Scheduled to meet with pole barn contractor on Tues... Also talked to another pole barn guy who I am waiting to hear back from.

 

[owScott]

I would check out metal buildings. You might be surprised how much cheaper they are than stick built.

Looked into both. Metal needs foundation, footings geo technical report and all around more complicated. Unless your spanning really big or planning on hanging heavy things or lifting things supported by the building metal frame is not necesary. Got bids for both and a pole building is definatly cheaper. For me at 50x30x16 this is a shop for equipment. I live in snow and high wind and the building is engineered to handle it fine. To be clear wood frame and metal siding.

 

[Fivepoints]

The nice thing about pole buildings is you can pour a floor in them later. We did this with one of our shop buildings. 40x50x14 was about $10K to have a 6" fiber reinforced floor poured later on. It beats trying to do it all at once unless your taking our a construction loan.