Sewn eyes, help me understand strength

[NickfromWI]

[ QUOTE ]
The important part is that with any commercial splice, be sure it is labeled for appropate breaking strength/working load limit and done by a reputable company. No label and I would not purchase.

Tony

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The label isn't doing anything. Anyone can do a crappy splice and put a good label on it. I would make my decision based on everything BUT the label and if I bought a splice with a label on it, first thing I would do it cut it off.

[ QUOTE ]
@ Moss: Are you using some kind of hihj Mod Fiber for Sewing?
Looks alittle bit like Technora or Kevlar from the Color.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, that's the brown natural looking whipping twine that comes with a lot of stitching awls!

love
nick

 

[Tony]

Nick, you raise a good point. I will have to revise my thinking!


Perhaps I should have clarified a label with reference numbers etc. that can be checked into would be my preference if buying blind.

I have pulled spliced materials off of racks at trade shows etc. that frankly I would not buy much less climb on. Typically the taper was poor to non existent. If the taper is not right I wonder what other things were missed.

Correct a label does not make a splice, but when purchasing from an unknown source it can be a litmus test so to speak.

I have a taped interview with the Rich H I turned into a podcast. When I find it I will attach.

Tony

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
@ Moss: Are you using some kind of hihj Mod Fiber for Sewing?
Looks alittle bit like Technora or Kevlar from the Color.
I think it would be not a good idea because its so "sharp", cutting the internal Fibers at less Load then Polyester or Nylon.
If I am wrong, please forget it... ;D

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, haven't checked into this thread for awhile. It's 3-strand polyester thread. Not rated but I've tested it to break up in the 90 lb. load range. I'm doing approx. 90 stitches now per eye so that gets the eye up into an excellent strength range (theoretically). I've sewed up three cords now, each time I do an eye it gets better and goes faster.

I hear you on the danger of a high mod fiber, would not consider using it for a sewn eye.

Some new cords just sewn up, two cords will be sent out for load tests, I'll report back on results.

PS: These are for my personal use, not for commercial distribution.
-AJ

 

[B_Renton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@ Moss: Are you using some kind of hihj Mod Fiber for Sewing?
Looks alittle bit like Technora or Kevlar from the Color.
I think it would be not a good idea because its so "sharp", cutting the internal Fibers at less Load then Polyester or Nylon.
If I am wrong, please forget it... ;D

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, haven't checked into this thread for awhile. It's 3-strand polyester thread. Not rated but I've tested it to break up in the 90 lb. load range. I'm doing approx. 90 stitches now per eye so that gets the eye up into an excellent strength range (theoretically). I've sewed up three cords now, each time I do an eye it gets better and goes faster.

I hear you on the danger of a high mod fiber, would not consider using it for a sewn eye.

Some new cords just sewn up, two cords will be sent out for load tests, I'll report back on results.

PS: These are for my personal use, not for commercial distribution.
-AJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I look foward to the break report.

What is the "diameter" of the thread? I don't know anything about thread, so I don't know the right word.

Something like this?

http://springfieldleather.com/29843/Thread%2CWax%2CPoly%2CBlack%2C4oz/

Where did you get it?

I want to fool with the idea, although probably not in situations where the strength is required for life support.

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I look foward to the break report.

What is the "diameter" of the thread? I don't know anything about thread, so I don't know the right word.

Something like this?

http://springfieldleather.com/29843/Thread%2CWax%2CPoly%2CBlack%2C4oz/

Where did you get it?

I want to fool with the idea, although probably not in situations where the strength is required for life support.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caution, once you get into sewing you'll want to make your own life support gear ;-)

I'm using #170 polyester thread from Stewart Manufacturing and the #4 needle on this page (scroll down to see the thread and needles).

PS: The #170 is the "fine" thread on that page.
-AJ

 

[B_Renton]

Thanks for the info.

I have been told Teufelberger uses a resin in their sewn splices. Maybe to increase friction between sides?

Back when I started doing a little rockclimbing, a good friend made his own gear, from harnessses and such to chocks. Nowadays that probably freaks people out to even think about.

 

[Tree Access]

They use the Resin to protect the Stichting from Abrasion.

 

[tuttle]

Its best to understand the thread you are using, the difference in types of stitches and ways to do it.

10cm is a good size, but 7cm will do it.

I have tested various types of stitching under, 100kgs and 200kgs load drops with no fails.

 

[TonyK]

Quick question, as I have been using a little lately, resin heavy shrink tubing, whilst it hides the stitching making inspection impossible would it offer any more strength (not that it should be needed) or protection to the stitching?

 

[B_Renton]

Anyone found a link for either description or vid of issues/tips with sewing your own rope eyes?

Something with specific info.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone found a link for either description or vid of issues/tips with sewing your own rope eyes?

Something with specific info.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get out your copy of On Rope and read what they have about sewing gear. It's a good place to start learning.

I'd be suspicious of home sewn gear. That said, I've made some myself using good thread, my trusty 1953 Pfaff machine and lots of extra stitches.

 

[tuttle]

[ QUOTE ]
Quick question, as I have been using a little lately, resin heavy shrink tubing, whilst it hides the stitching making inspection impossible would it offer any more strength (not that it should be needed) or protection to the stitching?

[/ QUOTE ]

the heavy duty wrap protects the stitching, so an inspection is not necessary, if you think about compression then it does add to strength but its minimal.

If you look my above picture, each stitch is worth 40lbs plus, so its a great method.

 

[flushcut]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

hand sewn eye, huh? Have you tested it? I'm super curious to know how it would hold up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty robust, I'm going to send one out to a friend for break testing. I'll be surprised if it doesn't test to a safe range.
-AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
Any word on the break test?

 

[tuttle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

hand sewn eye, huh? Have you tested it? I'm super curious to know how it would hold up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty robust, I'm going to send one out to a friend for break testing. I'll be surprised if it doesn't test to a safe range.
-AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
Any word on the break test?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have tested them on a 300kgs static pull, 80kgs drops of 3m+, and used ones that have minimal/different stitching to see the results.

 

[itterada]

If you guys want them actually tested to breaking on a machine, let me know. I'm as curious as everyone else to know exactly what these are breaking at.

Ian

 

[Adam_P]

Ian, where are you located? I'm about to order some OP and take a shot at it. I'd be game to have a couple tested.

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
If you guys want them actually tested to breaking on a machine, let me know. I'm as curious as everyone else to know exactly what these are breaking at.

Ian

[/ QUOTE ]

PM sent, you should have some of my sewn eyes on site.
-AJ

Edit: Heard back, looking froward to the break results, thanks!

 

[itterada]

Hey Adam, sent you a PM!

Moss: I'm gonna go talk to Dave as soon as I hit submit.

Dig.

Ian

 

[moss]

Ok, some side conversations have been happening which are helping me to get a better handle on thread and needle choices for my Speedy Stitcher sewing awl. The awl comes with cutting needles intended for punching through leather and vinyl. My concern was the needle was cutting fibers in the core. Break testing should help determine if that is so. The other concern is the #170 polyester "fine" thread I've been using doesn't have a strength rating.

To solve both outstanding questions I've done the research and come up with a good thread and needle spec to meet the requirements of my sewn eye projects:

Thread:
Tex400 .9mm bonded nylon thread, rated 75 lb.
Needle (ball tipped machine needle I can use in my sewing awl):
7x3250 or 7x3 Size 250

That's ordered I'll report back how it works out.
-AJ

 

[moss]

Got some break test results back. Not as good as I want but gives me a foundation to improve upon. I believe I can do better.

10mm Ocean Polyester, hand sewn eyes, inline pull, failed at 4182 lbs.

10mm Ocean Polyester, hand sewn eyes, basket hitch, broke a steel carabiner at 7019, the cord failed at 7880 after it was put on a stronger steel biner, the eyes did not fail.

8mm OP, two eyes sewed on to a DMM ring, failed at 7019 lbs, ring remained intact.

For two tests the eyes failed at the stitching, for one test the cord failed before the eyes. I did further research on the thread I'd been using, it's at or less than 45 lb. strength. I'm switching to a 75 lb. strength thread and am using ball tipped needles instead of the filed down leather cutting needles I used for the eyes tested above.
-AJ