selling vs. estimating
- Thread starter treehumper
- Start date
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One commonality--I've sold consultations to people from ALL ethnic groups.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats right Guy, Any good capitalist knows to take money from anyone regardless of their race or creed.
Its the nature of the free market right.
[/ QUOTE ]
A nicer way to say it might be that Guy has provided valued services to people of all backgrounds.
Grover, you seem to poison every thread you touch.
[ QUOTE ]
One commonality--I've sold consultations to people from ALL ethnic groups.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats right Guy, Any good capitalist knows to take money from anyone regardless of their race or creed.
Its the nature of the free market right.
[/ QUOTE ]
A nicer way to say it might be that Guy has provided valued services to people of all backgrounds.
Grover, you seem to poison every thread you touch.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I would say that there is a absolutely a different way to deal with people of different cultures. I have dealt with a lot of Indians as my girlfriend is Indian. They definitly are very adept at haggleing the price down and then down again. That does not mean that they dont value the service and are not good people. You just have to know what to expect when going in to the negotiation proccess. After a few times of losing my as* I now know that they wont accept any old price I give them. Business is business and it is cut throat nothing personal.
I have also found that they are wonderful customers, bring out food and tea for the crew, and are full of gratitude when the job is done. They also refer you to all of their community which is vast and tight knit. I am currently working on a brochure written in the tamil language. You simply have to approach the deal in a different way than you would your typical WASP.
I have also found that they are wonderful customers, bring out food and tea for the crew, and are full of gratitude when the job is done. They also refer you to all of their community which is vast and tight knit. I am currently working on a brochure written in the tamil language. You simply have to approach the deal in a different way than you would your typical WASP.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Has anyone ever thought about what their client does for a living and how it may influence their selling or buying style? How would a lawyer be vs. a doctor, engineer, entrepreneur? I usually find out what they do. It'll help in understanding how they deal.
Had a lesson from a client who happened to be an Iranian entrepreneur/real estate investor. He would always ask for a better price and the best answer is NO (his words), because he was willing to pay the original price but hey why not look for any break he can get. This after he told us all about his $45,000 driveway.
And yes, for some price is the main thing. Have you ever reduced your price in exchange for eliminating say the clean up? Asked about when they wanted it done by? Offered a better rate for off-season?
Selling is NOT sweet talking. It's relating your value proposition to your customer's needs. Putting in terms meaningful to them what the benefit of your service is to them. Having sold computers and software I quickly learned that just spewing numbers and technical crap at a client didn't do anything in most cases, regardless of the technical competency of the buyer. If you know WHY they're buying then you can better relate to them HOW you are the right company for the job.
Had a lesson from a client who happened to be an Iranian entrepreneur/real estate investor. He would always ask for a better price and the best answer is NO (his words), because he was willing to pay the original price but hey why not look for any break he can get. This after he told us all about his $45,000 driveway.
And yes, for some price is the main thing. Have you ever reduced your price in exchange for eliminating say the clean up? Asked about when they wanted it done by? Offered a better rate for off-season?
Selling is NOT sweet talking. It's relating your value proposition to your customer's needs. Putting in terms meaningful to them what the benefit of your service is to them. Having sold computers and software I quickly learned that just spewing numbers and technical crap at a client didn't do anything in most cases, regardless of the technical competency of the buyer. If you know WHY they're buying then you can better relate to them HOW you are the right company for the job.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I do a lot of work in inner city detroit. And yes I frequently do cut and leave its for people. the only thing they cant do is climb the tree. Most of the time there is someone in the house unemployed who can spend the week cleaning up, or not. Just as long as that dead limb isnt threatening to crush them as they walk out the house. This has enabled me to do a lot of work with my bicycle and trailer. give the chipper a rest. Lots of fun besides.
I am about the only detroit arborist that is even willing to do work at all in the city.
Then of course there is the difference in price for a removal in which you smash the lawn and one in which everything is lowered. Why not? they are obviously two different prices and I am capable of doing either or. The main thing is to be absolutely clear about what you are going to do. "I can leave huge divots in your lawn and that will save you 200 dollars. Is that worth it to you?" sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt.
I am about the only detroit arborist that is even willing to do work at all in the city.
Then of course there is the difference in price for a removal in which you smash the lawn and one in which everything is lowered. Why not? they are obviously two different prices and I am capable of doing either or. The main thing is to be absolutely clear about what you are going to do. "I can leave huge divots in your lawn and that will save you 200 dollars. Is that worth it to you?" sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
There is a difference in some cases, but not all cases.
Often, while I tally cost and supply advice, customers become sold on the fact that I know what I'm talking about, and that makes a sale.
Sometimes, they just want a price, and that is estimating.
So the two can be distinctly different, except in the cases when they are not separate; possibly occuring simultaneously in the same session.
Sometimes, I include something I notice that I was not called out for, and I suspect other estimators would not have included it since it was not the concern. And I purposely mention the need and include it in an estimate which I know is a better deal that other estimates. And the other companies have come and gone. Its a version of estimating, that I know will make a sale in 90% of the cases when I can do it.
Sales and Estimating are always separate for the less experienced, or individuals who lack the ability to combine the two. Its within the top tier of industry professionals where the ability and training resides to make estimating and sales blend together when the opportunity arises.
Often, while I tally cost and supply advice, customers become sold on the fact that I know what I'm talking about, and that makes a sale.
Sometimes, they just want a price, and that is estimating.
So the two can be distinctly different, except in the cases when they are not separate; possibly occuring simultaneously in the same session.
Sometimes, I include something I notice that I was not called out for, and I suspect other estimators would not have included it since it was not the concern. And I purposely mention the need and include it in an estimate which I know is a better deal that other estimates. And the other companies have come and gone. Its a version of estimating, that I know will make a sale in 90% of the cases when I can do it.
Sales and Estimating are always separate for the less experienced, or individuals who lack the ability to combine the two. Its within the top tier of industry professionals where the ability and training resides to make estimating and sales blend together when the opportunity arises.
[ QUOTE ]
Your the only guy that advertises being an arborist, well, how competative is your world. lol
well there is around 15 tree companys in a 5 mile radius i can think of not including landscapers who offer tree work so thats probably about 30..nearly all offering tree services as opposed to all aspects of arboriculture ect....I think the public is slowly waking up to the difference to qualified arborist than the hack tree services and are prepared to pay for quality work ,that is my point.
sorry you take offence to my little tantrums ekka..you must know how it is....being badgered to look at a job ASAP then not evan a hint of listening to your advice on what the best solution to the problem trees is..then be bartered on with the price then be told thats still to high what the hell you guys must be loaded ect ect at wich point you cant evan be bothered to justify your running costs and walk away.....maybe it was being insulted or my chronic tooth ache that real p!ssed me off to prompt such a harsh comment.
Point is you cant stero type every minority...the last 2 indians i did jobs for never bartered on the price neither did the asian guy (no i dont know where hes from more intersted in his tree)but im sure i got there work through word of mouth.
Your the only guy that advertises being an arborist, well, how competative is your world. lol
well there is around 15 tree companys in a 5 mile radius i can think of not including landscapers who offer tree work so thats probably about 30..nearly all offering tree services as opposed to all aspects of arboriculture ect....I think the public is slowly waking up to the difference to qualified arborist than the hack tree services and are prepared to pay for quality work ,that is my point.
sorry you take offence to my little tantrums ekka..you must know how it is....being badgered to look at a job ASAP then not evan a hint of listening to your advice on what the best solution to the problem trees is..then be bartered on with the price then be told thats still to high what the hell you guys must be loaded ect ect at wich point you cant evan be bothered to justify your running costs and walk away.....maybe it was being insulted or my chronic tooth ache that real p!ssed me off to prompt such a harsh comment.
Point is you cant stero type every minority...the last 2 indians i did jobs for never bartered on the price neither did the asian guy (no i dont know where hes from more intersted in his tree)but im sure i got there work through word of mouth.
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Hey Matty- when you quote someone, write your message outside the [ QUOTE ]
's and it will appear outside the box.
's and it will appear outside the box.
- Location
- Louisville, KY
That's crazy. I didn't mean to quote that. Just write your message outside the [quot3]'s and it will appear outside the box.
- Location
- Bethlehem, PA
I refer to solicitation as a sales call. A sales call is an opportunity to ask for and to receive agreement for contract of goods and services.
Estimation is a mathematical function to value the cost of a process over a period of time.
Consultation is a communication process, expressed as dialog between a professional and a prospect or client, for the purpose of learning and teaching information relevant to a service relationship. I think time management is crucial to the consultation phase of a sales call, in order to mitigate the value of time lost to unsuccessful (non-billable) proposal(s).
Estimation is a mathematical function to value the cost of a process over a period of time.
Consultation is a communication process, expressed as dialog between a professional and a prospect or client, for the purpose of learning and teaching information relevant to a service relationship. I think time management is crucial to the consultation phase of a sales call, in order to mitigate the value of time lost to unsuccessful (non-billable) proposal(s).
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"It's relating your value proposition to your customer's needs. Putting in terms meaningful to them what the benefit of your service is to them."
Well put.
Well put.
Matty
Japanese rarely barter here, they're very different in business to say Vietnamese or Chinese. Very respectful people, thank you for your time, like to listen to what you have to say.
Guy, you sell a lot of arb work, here 95%+ is Takedowns, you generally have to be lean on the numbers and fast on the action.
Like I said, end of the day, same result ... tree's gone. They dont give a chit about their lawn etc just how cheap you can do that tree.... they got 4 quotes!
Also, no-one has answered what the USP is, 4 blokes a chipper a stump grinder ha! Ya'll the same so I'll take Willy the Wacker coz he's $300 cheaper.
Japanese rarely barter here, they're very different in business to say Vietnamese or Chinese. Very respectful people, thank you for your time, like to listen to what you have to say.
Guy, you sell a lot of arb work, here 95%+ is Takedowns, you generally have to be lean on the numbers and fast on the action.
Like I said, end of the day, same result ... tree's gone. They dont give a chit about their lawn etc just how cheap you can do that tree.... they got 4 quotes!
Also, no-one has answered what the USP is, 4 blokes a chipper a stump grinder ha! Ya'll the same so I'll take Willy the Wacker coz he's $300 cheaper.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Willy may not be as reliable as you, nor responsive to issues of minor damage. The USP is just that, unique to you relative to Willy and all the other wackers (wankers?) out there. If you can't see the difference between you and the other outfits then you've got some work to do. As well, it's who the client is and what their primary buying motivation is. There are plenty of clients out there who buy on price (That's why Wal-mart is as big as it is) while there are plenty of clients for whom price is not the prime factor (thus the Harrod's of the world). This is where your marketing is key and your selling is focused. Market to those that buy on things other than price and sell them the quality of this service.
TreeHumper
You are right from our perspective however there's a flaw from the customers' perspective.
In the customers eyes you are the same as Willy the wacker says he'll do all the things you will and he's ever so reliable and trustworthy. The customer accepts this at face value from both of you.
In fact, sometimes the dodgiest are the best con men around.
It's only when the customer engages the wacker that they realise they've been conned. And sometimes they dont realise and accept the problems as a typical part of tree work.
On the Harrods vs walmart customer, there's another flaw. As time passes there's more Walmart type customers than Harrods, statistically the rich and poor gap etc is widening. There's more people doing it tough now than 10 years ago. There's less brand loyalty than 10 years ago. Consumer debt is highest ever, mortgaged to the hilt etc so people are becoming Walmart lovers regardless of Walmart does to it's employees. People are giving less of a chit about your issues as long as they're getting a bargain.
You are right from our perspective however there's a flaw from the customers' perspective.
In the customers eyes you are the same as Willy the wacker says he'll do all the things you will and he's ever so reliable and trustworthy. The customer accepts this at face value from both of you.
In fact, sometimes the dodgiest are the best con men around.
It's only when the customer engages the wacker that they realise they've been conned. And sometimes they dont realise and accept the problems as a typical part of tree work.
On the Harrods vs walmart customer, there's another flaw. As time passes there's more Walmart type customers than Harrods, statistically the rich and poor gap etc is widening. There's more people doing it tough now than 10 years ago. There's less brand loyalty than 10 years ago. Consumer debt is highest ever, mortgaged to the hilt etc so people are becoming Walmart lovers regardless of Walmart does to it's employees. People are giving less of a chit about your issues as long as they're getting a bargain.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Selling like everything else in business is an evolving process. Do you have clients who did use Willy Wacker then hirer you because of the experience? Get testimonials from them. How about property managers or insurance adjusters or landscape contractors that utilize your services? Can you use them as references?
Qualify the customer, know what their buying motivation is and negotiation strategy. Find out what the do. Are there children or pets? How long have they been in the house?
If you want to make more money then you'll have to do more work up front to earn it. Treat the customer as an individual and not as part of the statistics. Keep those statistics you cited in the back of your mind so you'll know what to ask. Do you offer a payment plan or credit card payment?
Sure you'll get the price shoppers. They are not interested in quality. Walmart doesn't sell the same quality product as Harrod's. Another thing to do is negotiate terms for payments on your supplies. Then invest the money before you have to spend it. That's how the big boys make money!
Maybe the next training you can take is SALES!
Qualify the customer, know what their buying motivation is and negotiation strategy. Find out what the do. Are there children or pets? How long have they been in the house?
If you want to make more money then you'll have to do more work up front to earn it. Treat the customer as an individual and not as part of the statistics. Keep those statistics you cited in the back of your mind so you'll know what to ask. Do you offer a payment plan or credit card payment?
Sure you'll get the price shoppers. They are not interested in quality. Walmart doesn't sell the same quality product as Harrod's. Another thing to do is negotiate terms for payments on your supplies. Then invest the money before you have to spend it. That's how the big boys make money!
Maybe the next training you can take is SALES!
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