Secondary tie-in for spurring: choked split-tail climbing line -OR- running bowline -OR- ??

Serf Life said:
Hey bud @LordFarkwad good job on trouble shooting your setup and asking all the questions. You seem to have a really good attitude on learning this skill. I am curious if you have reached out to a local pro yet? Wish there were some suggestions on who to look up, but we (pros) cannot stress the in person training enough.
Cutting firewood for years is super different to blowing a top out of even a dinky pine... Keep up the awesome research but please reach out for even an afternoon of hands on with a local.
-Sven
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I never found anyone local. Worthog was the closest, and he was in Asheville. Treeboi4life's YouTube channel mentioned he was in the Triad area of NC, still a little west of me, but I couldn't get ahold of him on the phone. I don't know what kind of reputation he had around here either.

If anyone knows anyone near the Triangle, let me know! I'd be more than willing to meet and get pointers, listen, etc., and compensate whoever it is for their time.
 
LordFarkwad said:
I never found anyone local. Worthog was the closest, and he was in Asheville. Treeboi4life's YouTube channel mentioned he was in the Triad area of NC, still a little west of me, but I couldn't get ahold of him on the phone. I don't know what kind of reputation he had around here either.

If anyone knows anyone near the Triangle, let me know! I'd be more than willing to meet and get pointers, listen, etc., and compensate whoever it is for their time.
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Tree boi I believe is in Winston. Don't know him personally though. I'm in the Boone area if you're ever up this way
 
I think I'm actually beginning to prefer using the life line as a lanyard while ascending, along with a long rope lanyard (25 foot of 1/2" Samson True Blue with a Prusik and cmi micro pulley), versus using a steel core. The extra tail of the steel core gets in the way. I just keep the tail of the 25' lanyard in a small Husky drawstring bag or daisychained).

Clipping the climbing line tail through a biner to keep it away from spurs and saw works great.

Thanks, gentlemen.
 
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Keeping both the climbing line 'lanyard' and long True Blue lanyard around the tree and advancing at the same time is simple; no trouble at all. Quick to switch the climb line from lanyard config to SRS when setting the canopy anchor point.

I only had double locking carabiners for several auxillary functions I needed them for (securing rope bag to harness, and keeping climbing line tail over on left leg), which is a waste for those, it seems. Might need something simpler - will those S-shaped wire gate things or simple wire gate carabiners work, that can be picked up just about anywhere?

Since the HH2 and the pulley/Prusik for both lanyards'adjusters end up on the same D-ring, it is a little crowded and they have to be arranged/situated correctly to each work smoothly, but I think I have a satisfactory configuration worked out for that.

Still working at feeling comfortable in the spurs, like I'm not on the edge of gaffing out constantly. I've found that, true to someone's advice earlier in this thread, planting my feet more outboard (more towards 3 and 9 o'clock) on the tree seems to help this issue greatly. Not sure what to do once the spar gets down to around 5" or so; seems like staying gaffed in would be more difficult in that arena.

I left the steel fliplines at the bottom of the tree this time, because using a steel core along with a rope lanyard was a pain that other time I tried it (again, as someone pointed out to me earlier in this thread). I felt good enough advancing with the two lanyards.

I pulled the long eye splice out of that buckstrap I originally obtained, and I think it gained me something like 6", maybe? Haha. But now I'm much more familiar with how a spliced eye is made :D

Thank you for all the help, guys. Just wanted to post a little update.
 
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What saddle do you use? If you have something with lower D's or rigging plates you can use your climbline or second lanyard down low and keep everything from getting crowded on the hip d's. I do this if I'm spurring and cutting as I hike up. It also helps keep your secondary a little lower and out of the way, and IMO more likely to not get severed if you were to hit your flipline.
It's not too bad to flip two lines at once but unless you're cutting every step I would just ditch the secondary until you are ready to cut.
 
Z'sTrees said:
What saddle do you use? If you have something with lower D's or rigging plates you can use your climbline or second lanyard down low and keep everything from getting crowded on the hip d's. I do this if I'm spurring and cutting as I hike up. It also helps keep your secondary a little lower and out of the way, and IMO more likely to not get severed if you were to hit your flipline.
It's not too bad to flip two lines at once but unless you're cutting every step I would just ditch the secondary until you are ready to cut.
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I'm using a goofy Weaver 4D wide back.

No rings except the center ones and hip ones.
 
It's been a few years since I've been in one of those, and I climbed on a closed system back then. Those lower D's might get a little floppy trying to flip with
 
Z'sTrees said:
It's been a few years since I've been in one of those, and I climbed on a closed system back then. Those lower D's might get a little floppy trying to flip with
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Whatchoo mean, "those lower D's"? Are you calling the hip ones the "lower" ones?
 

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Another spur tip is keeping your toes up and heels down a bit which feels odd at first but helps. I used to compete in timbersports speed climb and every trick adds up to feeling more confident with spiking. Had someone belaying though...
 
If using two lanyards for safety only and not progressive use could just twist them and use as a single lanyard.

Here is link top Sherbrook Tree Service Youtube video that shows just that

 
Chaplain242 said:
If using two lanyards for safety only and not progressive use could just twist them and use as a single lanyard.

Here is link top Sherbrook Tree Service Youtube video that shows just that

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I like having the climb line untangled from the True Blue in case a quick exit is needed, in which case I can just cinch it around the trunk with a carabiner and descend on the HH2 (super fun being able to ride down the tree versus spurring back down!! So cool).

Maybe I'll change my ways after I become more comfortable with everything? As of now, the above is my thinking as to why I'm keeping them untangled.
 
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I'm playing with the idea of getting a different harness and offloading this guy, potentially. It's heavy as crap, and I'd like to play around with others to see how the different designs feel.

Both of the arborist supply houses nearby that I am familiar with ONLY stock the Weaver I have, too. So, I assumed it was alright.
 
yea the old 4 d's kinda suck for anything but standing in hooks.
without reading all ten pages of this thread, if your nervous about gaffing out with just a flipline, why not set your climbline from the ground first? thats by far the easiest and safest way, albeit maybe not the most productive in certain situations.
 
Z'sTrees said:
yea the old 4 d's kinda suck for anything but standing in hooks.
without reading all ten pages of this thread, if your nervous about gaffing out with just a flipline, why not set your climbline from the ground first? thats by far the easiest and safest way, albeit maybe not the most productive in certain situations.
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Yeah, as I've messed with all this, that has been an idea that I've begun considering as well. I've shied away from it based on my throw bag slinging abilities, and the fact that bottom limbs are usually ~50' up on some of these average-sized pines. But, I could also hook a stub, send a cinching knot up to choke the spar, climb up to that, throw/cinch again, climb again, etc., etc. At least that would limit the distance I'd have to be accurate to, where the throw bag is concerned.
 
LordFarkwad said:
What do you mean by this exactly?
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They are not comfortable to put weight in the seat and crush your legs together. The wide back was pretty decent when you're standing in hooks with your weight in your flipline though.

Definitely work on your throwline skills. That's one of the most important skillsets in tree work. The big shot and other launchers are great and alot of us use them often, but you still need to be able to hand throw with some degree of accuracy. And yes you can use a stub or small branch to support a cinch around the stem. I wouldn't use a carabiner here though. Running bowline or Alpine butterfly with or without another piece of hardware.
 
If I am understanding Z133 (2017) correctly, 8.1.14 seems to say that ascending without a cinched TIP when only secured to the spar (versus a limb) is an unacceptable practice. In other words, climbing with ONLY a flipline/lanyard is not ANSI compliant.

Am I reading this correctly?
 
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