Saka vs Velox?

I find the history of modern climbing techniques quite interesting and it's really cool so many involved are here on the buzz and that it's happening right now.

Tim... this is the earliest I'm aware a rope walking system appeared on YouTube. Posted by G. Beranek. I'd like to read some of his books one day.


But of course the world existed BG (before Google) so maybe there's earlier use. If not, it's pretty cool this was posted online and even more cool, it's still available!
 
Greg_L said:
I believe that the Velox adds in a heck of a lot more bungee, like the SAKA, running all the way from the foot loop area up through the top to the hook. The only main difference between the two now, appears to be that the SAKA is stiff, while the Velox is not. I guess at this point, it depends on what you want to do with the thing when you get to your tip/work station...are you going to pitch it to the ground every time, or will you hold onto it in case you encounter another long ascent? The stiff tether might make stowing the SAKA on your saddle a bit of a pain since it'd basically be a 18"-ish long stick, while the velox could stow itself smaller. 2 cents.
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this is not the case. the "sake " basically folds one bungie in half making it 2 times as strong. which is not needed.. the VELOX has two lengths of bungee in series which gives you 2 times the elongation.. this is very beneficial.. it mean no set up, much better range, and anyone can use it.
 
I believe Beranek was the first to use bungee in in arboriculture and I think possibly anywhere to advance a ascender at knee height. there is always someone who will tell you they are a self proclaimed Genius and they did it first but didn't tell anyone ( and the caving community which is also very big into rope ascent, is full of this type of guy ) but my bet is with him.. when I showed off my first Haas people started making them all over., ironically many of the home made "haas" were and are actually Beranek walkers. I would say there are probably 4 home made "haas" for every real one. and of those 4 half of them are actually Beranek walkers., mostly because some people still don't get why the bungee is in the tube. I actually had a guy come up to me and try and chew me out for copying Mr Beranek at a show one time . When I worked at knot and rope supply we made up variations of these all the time and they worked fantastic for the time.
 
treehive said:
I believe Beranek was the first to use bungee in in arboriculture and I think possibly anywhere to advance a ascender at knee height..... and the caving community which is also very big into rope ascent....
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There's very simple instructions for an over the shoulder one in 'on rope' (1997). Ive not seen one prussiked to the standing end of a doubled ropes setup before, thats pretty nice
 
treehive said:
this is not the case. the "sake " basically folds one bungie in half making it 2 times as strong. which is not needed.. the VELOX has two lengths of bungee in series which gives you 2 times the elongation.. this is very beneficial.. it mean no set up, much better range, and anyone can use it.
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This is true! Knee ascenders have been around for a long time but not in the very convenient form of the HAAS and now the Velox. To my knowledge, Michael came up with a first with this design and it does change things significantly. Though I had utilised knee ascenders in the past I rarely used them at work because they were more trouble than they were worth for most short tree climbs. The HAAS changed that in a big way.
 
Bingo re elastic (spring) and compactness.

If you've made or used a knee ascender and a SAKA you know this. The velox Hass design appears more of a bungy redirect (with a really nice pulley) which makes the Hass more compact.
 
JefLong said:
THIS is not the case! Doubling the bungee over does not make it 2 times as strong, it makes it 2 times as elastic. Which it does need in order to serve its purpose and remain as compact and self contained.
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If you have one piece of 15" long bungee and it takes 4lbs of force to stretch it 12" you
will still get just 12" of travel but with 8lbs of force by doubling it and pulling on both ends as in the SAKA. With the Velox, because its bungee is attached at the top, runs down and around the bottom pulley, you would get a full 24" of travel at the 4lbs rate.
 
(based on what I know) saka and hass are different in terms of spring force, though they each move the ascender a similar amount. how each device perfroms and how they behave in doing so becomes a matter of user preference. nice for us to have options, either purchased or diy.
 
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treehive said:
this is not the case. the "sake " basically folds one bungie in half making it 2 times as strong. which is not needed.. the VELOX has two lengths of bungee in series which gives you 2 times the elongation.. this is very beneficial.. it mean no set up, much better range, and anyone can use it.
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treehive said:
this is not the case. the "sake "
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IMG_20160318_185743.webp
I'm not sure why you used quotation marks but it is, SAKA or S.A.K.A. it stands for Self Advancing Knee Ascender, not the drink from Japan.
 
The CT ascender has never failed me or come off of my climbing rope, whereas the HAAS, has continuously needed to be monitored. There's nothing worse than pushing down and catching nothing but air, when it comes dislodged from the rope. There's continuous quality in every SAKA. Not to say that quality hasn't been put into the HAAS, but the consistency and proof is in the SAKA.
 
Dave Rohach said:
The CT ascender has never failed me or come off of my climbing rope, whereas the HAAS, has continuously needed to be monitored.
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Doesn't the HAAS use a CT ascender too?

Personally, I've never tried the SAKA or Velox (although I would LOVE too), but based off looks alone I like the aesthetics of the Velox. The pulley seems to me a beautiful addition and the zero setup bungee is a huge bonus.
 
Yes Matt, it is a CT, but the original ones didn't have the new catch on them, they were more similar to a chest croll, I haven't had a reason to try the newest version, since I have 2 of the SAKA's. When and if these wear out I may try the newest version, but by then there will more than likely be several newer variations to the HAAS. I've been a bit biased towards the SAKA, since it's never had any problems since YoYoMan introduced them. His ingenuity has been unsurpassed to date. I'm sure it's all in the Users preference, and the SAKA has been my #1, ascender besides the CT foot ascender. I'm gonna catch a lot of flack over my personal opinion and choice, but I've got broad shoulders, so no worries!
 
Boomslang said:
Doesn't the HAAS use a CT ascender too?
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Both use a CT, (Climbing Technology) brand ascender. Both HAAS and Velox use the chest ascender which does not lay flat and has a soft connection to the body. The SAKA uses the CT Simple which has the exact same configuration to a foot ascender. It is bolted to the body so there is no movement and maintains perfect orientation and zero set back between steps.
I do think the Velox is a vast improvement over the original HAAS. I see the original for 115.00 so it may be a deal.
 
So... after seeing the inventor of the wheel pushing his wheel down the road with a stick, Hillbilly Harry thought, "That's a worthless use of a good idea!" and promptly made him a slightly lighter wheel and a hooked it to a barrel and added handles. He's wheeling a load of shit down the road one day, so he can dump it on the edge of the village, when Clever Cleveland spots him and thinks, "That's a goofy way to haul shit!" and proceeds to make two slightly lighter wheels and attaches them to a box and fastens the whole thing to his mule. He's hauling a wagon load of shit down the road one day, and runs into Harry. They promptly start arguing about who copied who and which shit hauler is the best. Unknown to them, Nutty Ned had seen both shit haulers, made two really lightweight wheels, attached pedals to a wooden frame and came flying down the road at them. The other two men immediately start harassing him about what a lousy shit hauler he "invented"... to which Nutty Ned replied, "Look, you brainless turds, I ride this thing to the edge of the village and take a dump each day so I don't have to haul shit all week. Now, move your slow ass shit haulers out of the way, I'm in a hurry!"

One of these guys was clearly smarter than the other two.
 
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