- Location
- Hilmar CA ( central valley )
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
JB, hope you're healin up ok. Yer in my prayers! Jesse
JB, hope you're healin up ok. Yer in my prayers! Jesse
Rules for "put it on the ground"
- Thread starter hl_tree
- Start date
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
Your professionalism or lack there of will generally speak for itself There will always be costomers who are impossable to please and their friend will know there blowin' smoke. I agree about modern landscapes being too nice and "unnatural" but those who can,often choose to have them that way. I often did work for clients who had full time staff to handle landscape issues and were not cutting corners by not having us do the cleanup. We were hired to do what they couldnt or their crew couldnt. they were able to hire a professional/ISA Certified Arborist because they knew the tree work, rigged removal or prune job was where they needed a professional,not a laborer. TC1 your standards are lofty but dogmatic and do not fit with the reality of most of the rest of us.IMHO
[/ QUOTE ]
no no, let him be all lofty and dogmatic....it means more ca$h in pocket for those of us that <font color="red"> ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD! </font> let em hand pick all the cherry jobs and hoighty toighty uber bling bling tree work....while he is off in fantasy land, we will be busy doing actual treework......
[ QUOTE ]
Your professionalism or lack there of will generally speak for itself There will always be costomers who are impossable to please and their friend will know there blowin' smoke. I agree about modern landscapes being too nice and "unnatural" but those who can,often choose to have them that way. I often did work for clients who had full time staff to handle landscape issues and were not cutting corners by not having us do the cleanup. We were hired to do what they couldnt or their crew couldnt. they were able to hire a professional/ISA Certified Arborist because they knew the tree work, rigged removal or prune job was where they needed a professional,not a laborer. TC1 your standards are lofty but dogmatic and do not fit with the reality of most of the rest of us.IMHO
[/ QUOTE ]
no no, let him be all lofty and dogmatic....it means more ca$h in pocket for those of us that <font color="red"> ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD! </font> let em hand pick all the cherry jobs and hoighty toighty uber bling bling tree work....while he is off in fantasy land, we will be busy doing actual treework......
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
Thanks, Jes I hope everything is going well for you the miss's and kids.
Stay safe!
Thanks, Jes I hope everything is going well for you the miss's and kids.
Stay safe!
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
i wouldn't leave any outright hazards of something standing or sprung. If i'm the pro leaving the rest for a homeowner; i'm not going to set them up for injury-"...not on my watch".
If i like him; i might drop the '44 through some of the trunk if it is just 4 minutes more; but leaving the last of the cut(close to dirt etc.) for them and their smaller saw. i'll also size the distance of the cuts to where pieces can be worked out gate, put in their loader etc. i'll set them up for sucess as much as feasible; like i'd hope another pro would do the simple high impact stuff in their league for me; if the situation were re-versed.
Irregardless i believe has achieved some saturation into the living language; at least in US(?). Mostly from acceptance becasuse of it's fame of non-acceptance after many were using it. Now it is just more lyrical/ colorful painted prose written with more of a brush than pen IMLHO.
i wouldn't leave any outright hazards of something standing or sprung. If i'm the pro leaving the rest for a homeowner; i'm not going to set them up for injury-"...not on my watch".
If i like him; i might drop the '44 through some of the trunk if it is just 4 minutes more; but leaving the last of the cut(close to dirt etc.) for them and their smaller saw. i'll also size the distance of the cuts to where pieces can be worked out gate, put in their loader etc. i'll set them up for sucess as much as feasible; like i'd hope another pro would do the simple high impact stuff in their league for me; if the situation were re-versed.
Irregardless i believe has achieved some saturation into the living language; at least in US(?). Mostly from acceptance becasuse of it's fame of non-acceptance after many were using it. Now it is just more lyrical/ colorful painted prose written with more of a brush than pen IMLHO.
- Location
- Seattle WA
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
And I felt that since everyone else was criticizing your post, I should chime in as well.
Welcome to the Buzz!
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, right? geez. quite the unfriendly welcome for a guy's 2nd post. am i missing something here gentlemen? agree or don't, but seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing..
..or maybe it's just me..
[ QUOTE ]
And I felt that since everyone else was criticizing your post, I should chime in as well.
Welcome to the Buzz!
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, right? geez. quite the unfriendly welcome for a guy's 2nd post. am i missing something here gentlemen? agree or don't, but seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing..
..or maybe it's just me..
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
What are the rules you try to abide by when the customer just wants the tree or branches put on the ground?
I offer a few of my rules. Thanks for the comments. It does offer a great chance to understand the topic to a greater depth.
First off, I always appreciate a spelling and thesaurus check. As "irregardless" hasn't ever been an opportunity on the SCRABBLE board, i haven't ever checked it in webster's during a point protest, and didn't realize they hadn't picked it up yet. Usually they will add words after they are in use after a certain point in time. What could that word be replaced by? "Not in spite of".
However, after doing a google search, i found it is actually a word.
You must have heard this from a past English teacher, and he was right, but wrong. It accepted. But not embraced by all scholars.
For your review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Now onto another point brought up regarding my entire statement "the most bad advice I have ever heard in a long time". Sometimes the truth hurts. Right? Can we all admit that? Come on and be real, you aren't fooling anyone. I drop trees. Of course. Its a viable option. It's the method I argued.
Review my statement if you actually read it and understood it to begin with. It appears a couple protesters haven't grasped its core. In summary, it is this:
Be responsible. Be ethical. Consider liabilities that you are creating and will be held responsible for in a court of law if the right situation were to present itself: (ie, leaving widow makers, bent of sapplings, unreleased holding wood at the base). All these have the potential to harm those that enter the scene after you leave. This creates a liability issue. Not in spite of the fact that you removed one hazard from the property. Rather, a creation of other hazards occurred in the process.
Don't leave yourself exposed, offer environmentally friendly options that could also save money, be creative.
What I stated to be activity that is unprofessional is this: Just dropping a tree and leaving, without having given the client an "informed choice". Don't think it doesn't apply here. It does. Really, we aren't just out for the money here. You may be, and great if you are. To each his own. That quest can really make life an interesting game. However, the money will be after you, and quick, if you truly look out for the clients best interest.
I would have to counter the comment about there being "more money for the rest of us" if I hold to my lofty standards. I can only say that your opinion is true. It is 100% true. There will be more "money" for you. This is irredeemable for "quality" however. You get paid. OK. Point taken.
Those jobs will always be there for us. The more we do, the more we get paid. Its irrefutable. Unless we consider the one chance in maybe 2,500 that a home owner shall be maimed from any portion of the work which is left incomplete and hazardous, and they happen to follow up on "why". That could cost a lot of legal representation, explanation, and unecessary emotional baggage and possible legal ramifications. I would think that the cost of this to a business could be devestating.
To avoid this, maybe a disclaimer form can be provided to the customer that provides in detail the scope of the work that you are providing. Further, detail the hazards that will be left behind. Show them afterwards what the hazards are, have them sign it, get your money and go. Would you feel comfortable if someone was hurt though? Probably not. Rather than a disclaimer, just bid it into the job to do it correctly. I don't like all the extra paper work, and hate those pharmaceutical drug commercial disclaimers at the ends of commercials. Imagine that.
I drop big dead trees occasionally, or crane them out. Usually I am very clear in advance as to collateral damage potential, and I price it in. Of course, not everyone can afford to pay for a complete removal. Not everyone wants to either. That's acceptable. But don't compromise liability exposure for profit. That's plain foolishness. In today's world that's asking for trouble.
I climb out adject trees that are damaged. I don't leave traps. How is this "lofty and dogmatic". These are my rules. I price it in. If i don't get the job, that's OK. I haven't been out of work since I got in this business over 15 years ago. I am glad to know I am not taking all of your work away from you. Why all the complaints about doing a job to a higher level? As I said, the truth hurts, and i am sorry to have ruined the party. Wasn't that the original request here? State your rules. Every situation is different. It's not like we all don't know exactly what is being said here.
We can be the "drop and leave with hazards guy". There is a place in the forest for that. I won't fight for that niche. Sometimes it comes up on the schedule. I find that as I demanded a higher level of quality out of myself, I began to attract a higher level of client. I think that goes without saying for every profession, and we can all probably realize that. At times, there are these situations that we can be proposed, and we need to be cautious. Thats all. If all you want to do is this type of work, and leave hazards then do it. You will get a lot of it, because its out there.
Properly thinking through a business plan can encompass a more "wholistic" approach to the problem of tree removal and also accurately identify the bottom line. Its truly artwork, and there are many ways to express it. Just cover all the bases, thats all. Most major business failures occur from an unknown or "covered up" element. Ignorance of available facts is not an argument to defend negligent behavior. Its a big game out there. CYA.
Gentlemen, start your engines.
[ QUOTE ]
What are the rules you try to abide by when the customer just wants the tree or branches put on the ground?
I offer a few of my rules. Thanks for the comments. It does offer a great chance to understand the topic to a greater depth.
First off, I always appreciate a spelling and thesaurus check. As "irregardless" hasn't ever been an opportunity on the SCRABBLE board, i haven't ever checked it in webster's during a point protest, and didn't realize they hadn't picked it up yet. Usually they will add words after they are in use after a certain point in time. What could that word be replaced by? "Not in spite of".
However, after doing a google search, i found it is actually a word.
You must have heard this from a past English teacher, and he was right, but wrong. It accepted. But not embraced by all scholars.
For your review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Now onto another point brought up regarding my entire statement "the most bad advice I have ever heard in a long time". Sometimes the truth hurts. Right? Can we all admit that? Come on and be real, you aren't fooling anyone. I drop trees. Of course. Its a viable option. It's the method I argued.
Review my statement if you actually read it and understood it to begin with. It appears a couple protesters haven't grasped its core. In summary, it is this:
Be responsible. Be ethical. Consider liabilities that you are creating and will be held responsible for in a court of law if the right situation were to present itself: (ie, leaving widow makers, bent of sapplings, unreleased holding wood at the base). All these have the potential to harm those that enter the scene after you leave. This creates a liability issue. Not in spite of the fact that you removed one hazard from the property. Rather, a creation of other hazards occurred in the process.
Don't leave yourself exposed, offer environmentally friendly options that could also save money, be creative.
What I stated to be activity that is unprofessional is this: Just dropping a tree and leaving, without having given the client an "informed choice". Don't think it doesn't apply here. It does. Really, we aren't just out for the money here. You may be, and great if you are. To each his own. That quest can really make life an interesting game. However, the money will be after you, and quick, if you truly look out for the clients best interest.
I would have to counter the comment about there being "more money for the rest of us" if I hold to my lofty standards. I can only say that your opinion is true. It is 100% true. There will be more "money" for you. This is irredeemable for "quality" however. You get paid. OK. Point taken.
Those jobs will always be there for us. The more we do, the more we get paid. Its irrefutable. Unless we consider the one chance in maybe 2,500 that a home owner shall be maimed from any portion of the work which is left incomplete and hazardous, and they happen to follow up on "why". That could cost a lot of legal representation, explanation, and unecessary emotional baggage and possible legal ramifications. I would think that the cost of this to a business could be devestating.
To avoid this, maybe a disclaimer form can be provided to the customer that provides in detail the scope of the work that you are providing. Further, detail the hazards that will be left behind. Show them afterwards what the hazards are, have them sign it, get your money and go. Would you feel comfortable if someone was hurt though? Probably not. Rather than a disclaimer, just bid it into the job to do it correctly. I don't like all the extra paper work, and hate those pharmaceutical drug commercial disclaimers at the ends of commercials. Imagine that.
I drop big dead trees occasionally, or crane them out. Usually I am very clear in advance as to collateral damage potential, and I price it in. Of course, not everyone can afford to pay for a complete removal. Not everyone wants to either. That's acceptable. But don't compromise liability exposure for profit. That's plain foolishness. In today's world that's asking for trouble.
I climb out adject trees that are damaged. I don't leave traps. How is this "lofty and dogmatic". These are my rules. I price it in. If i don't get the job, that's OK. I haven't been out of work since I got in this business over 15 years ago. I am glad to know I am not taking all of your work away from you. Why all the complaints about doing a job to a higher level? As I said, the truth hurts, and i am sorry to have ruined the party. Wasn't that the original request here? State your rules. Every situation is different. It's not like we all don't know exactly what is being said here.
We can be the "drop and leave with hazards guy". There is a place in the forest for that. I won't fight for that niche. Sometimes it comes up on the schedule. I find that as I demanded a higher level of quality out of myself, I began to attract a higher level of client. I think that goes without saying for every profession, and we can all probably realize that. At times, there are these situations that we can be proposed, and we need to be cautious. Thats all. If all you want to do is this type of work, and leave hazards then do it. You will get a lot of it, because its out there.
Properly thinking through a business plan can encompass a more "wholistic" approach to the problem of tree removal and also accurately identify the bottom line. Its truly artwork, and there are many ways to express it. Just cover all the bases, thats all. Most major business failures occur from an unknown or "covered up" element. Ignorance of available facts is not an argument to defend negligent behavior. Its a big game out there. CYA.
Gentlemen, start your engines.
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property".
[/ QUOTE ]
I realize you are paraphrasing what the client is saying to his friend, but I have a personal vendetta against the word "irregardless", mainly because it is not a word.
And I felt that since everyone else was criticizing your post, I should chime in as well.
Welcome to the Buzz!
SZ
[/ QUOTE ]
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and many other have it listed as a word.
Request a tuition refund from the institute of higher education that offered you such a limited spectrum of interpretation into our native language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Also, go to www.irregardless.com its a cafe in Raleigh, NC.
Go there, order up a round of latte's with the tuition refund money and contemplate with local scholars about the meaning of the word. Its a hot topic there.
I hope I didn't kill your buzz.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property".
[/ QUOTE ]
I realize you are paraphrasing what the client is saying to his friend, but I have a personal vendetta against the word "irregardless", mainly because it is not a word.
And I felt that since everyone else was criticizing your post, I should chime in as well.
Welcome to the Buzz!
SZ
[/ QUOTE ]
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and many other have it listed as a word.
Request a tuition refund from the institute of higher education that offered you such a limited spectrum of interpretation into our native language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Also, go to www.irregardless.com its a cafe in Raleigh, NC.
Go there, order up a round of latte's with the tuition refund money and contemplate with local scholars about the meaning of the word. Its a hot topic there. I hope I didn't kill your buzz.
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your professionalism or lack there of will generally speak for itself There will always be costomers who are impossable to please and their friend will know there blowin' smoke. I agree about modern landscapes being too nice and "unnatural" but those who can,often choose to have them that way. I often did work for clients who had full time staff to handle landscape issues and were not cutting corners by not having us do the cleanup. We were hired to do what they couldnt or their crew couldnt. they were able to hire a professional/ISA Certified Arborist because they knew the tree work, rigged removal or prune job was where they needed a professional,not a laborer. TC1 your standards are lofty but dogmatic and do not fit with the reality of most of the rest of us.IMHO
[/ QUOTE ]
no no, let him be all lofty and dogmatic....it means more ca$h in pocket for those of us that <font color="red"> ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD! </font> let em hand pick all the cherry jobs and hoighty toighty uber bling bling tree work....while he is off in fantasy land, we will be busy doing actual treework......
[/ QUOTE ]
You call drop and leave hard work? That's cherry baby. Be real. CHERRY. I like the CHERRY too. No doubt. But just watch out for the pits!
Don't get too comfortable. I am not calling the "type" of work unprofessional.
All industries have discount, cut rate service. Just don't sacrifice quality, safety and liability for a "favor" or "quick cash".
Your idea of "actual tree work" is slamming a massive structure of biomass to the earthen floor in disregard of all for the benefit of "thyself". That to me would seem a bit "lofty and dogmatic" to share with the group here.
However, maybe you can elaborate a bit so I can become more present to your reality. Is that really the type of "work" you consider exemplary of the urban arboriculture industry? Does your inurance agent know that? How about your inner self? Check your gut. It just takes a bit more work to make things safe, unless there was bad direction on the fall and more collateral damage ensued.
In the arboriculture industry. Procedures should be followed. Guidelines should be standardized to keep from running into problems. "Drop and leave" has its down side. Inform the client of this, along with taking care of the hazards, as your responsibility. It is not that difficult to walk away if you can't perform under an ethical standard of guidelines. What's the argument about? If you want to play hero, that's fine. I say just don't do it without factoring in all angles. Sell the "correct approach".
I think its unprofessional to leave a hazardous mess. That's what was described in the starting point of the thread. That's it. So, if that's what they want, i usually don't have time for it but will give the job off to another climber that can handle it with minimal equipment. If its my job, we clean up all the hazards that result. Thats all. Got it now?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your professionalism or lack there of will generally speak for itself There will always be costomers who are impossable to please and their friend will know there blowin' smoke. I agree about modern landscapes being too nice and "unnatural" but those who can,often choose to have them that way. I often did work for clients who had full time staff to handle landscape issues and were not cutting corners by not having us do the cleanup. We were hired to do what they couldnt or their crew couldnt. they were able to hire a professional/ISA Certified Arborist because they knew the tree work, rigged removal or prune job was where they needed a professional,not a laborer. TC1 your standards are lofty but dogmatic and do not fit with the reality of most of the rest of us.IMHO
[/ QUOTE ]
no no, let him be all lofty and dogmatic....it means more ca$h in pocket for those of us that <font color="red"> ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD! </font> let em hand pick all the cherry jobs and hoighty toighty uber bling bling tree work....while he is off in fantasy land, we will be busy doing actual treework......
[/ QUOTE ]
You call drop and leave hard work? That's cherry baby. Be real. CHERRY. I like the CHERRY too. No doubt. But just watch out for the pits!
Don't get too comfortable. I am not calling the "type" of work unprofessional.
All industries have discount, cut rate service. Just don't sacrifice quality, safety and liability for a "favor" or "quick cash".
Your idea of "actual tree work" is slamming a massive structure of biomass to the earthen floor in disregard of all for the benefit of "thyself". That to me would seem a bit "lofty and dogmatic" to share with the group here.
However, maybe you can elaborate a bit so I can become more present to your reality. Is that really the type of "work" you consider exemplary of the urban arboriculture industry? Does your inurance agent know that? How about your inner self? Check your gut. It just takes a bit more work to make things safe, unless there was bad direction on the fall and more collateral damage ensued.
In the arboriculture industry. Procedures should be followed. Guidelines should be standardized to keep from running into problems. "Drop and leave" has its down side. Inform the client of this, along with taking care of the hazards, as your responsibility. It is not that difficult to walk away if you can't perform under an ethical standard of guidelines. What's the argument about? If you want to play hero, that's fine. I say just don't do it without factoring in all angles. Sell the "correct approach".
I think its unprofessional to leave a hazardous mess. That's what was described in the starting point of the thread. That's it. So, if that's what they want, i usually don't have time for it but will give the job off to another climber that can handle it with minimal equipment. If its my job, we clean up all the hazards that result. Thats all. Got it now?
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
actually my idea of notch and drop (rural/ country area only) is to drop it, limb it, buck it up, and make it easy for the homeowner to clean up. You would be surprised at how many people like this option.
in the city i climb it, limb it, drop the top, buck it down and leave it (AS REQUESTED BY THE CUSTOMER)
i'm HARDLY dropping a huge object into the biomass and leaving it.......<rolls eyes>
and you keep forgeting that its NOT your trees or properties, its the CLIENTS...if the client wants the tree notched and dropped and left, so be it, thats THEIR decision. If they want it climbed, taken down and left, thats their call, not mine, not yours. where do you get off being the tree police and dictating what MY customers should be doing? worry about your own customers, mine are happy and are repeat customers. And uh, by the way...up here in BC its perfectly acceptable to leave a tree on the ground....99% of my clients are on the surrounding islands, in the forest, or on huge tracts of land outside of the city. Maybe in your neck of the world this is'nt acceptable, but i live here, not there.
and i'm not really following why leaving firewood and a stack of limbs is Hazardous? can you elaborate? the homeowners wants the pile of firewood and the pile of limbs. Again, how is this hazardrous? they are disposing of it, however they see fit. Most of my clients fire up the Cat and make an even bigger pile of slash, then they burn it.
My customers would laugh if i told them that I wanted to carge more for chipping, firewood removal, and stump removal.
I have VERY little overhead costs, because i do not need a stumpgrinder, or a chipper, or a chip truck. I cater to clients that want a tree or twenty dropped, or climbed and dropped, or windfirmed. No frou frou city trees, no strata councils, no pruning, no cleanup, no dusting the lawn clean after.....
but hey, you keep on keeping on....if you feel so strongly about the issue, you jsut do your thing. Because i do VERY well for myself doing what i do, without advertising, simply by referals form happy customers. I have YET to clean up a tree i have dropped, nor do i ever plan too.
actually my idea of notch and drop (rural/ country area only) is to drop it, limb it, buck it up, and make it easy for the homeowner to clean up. You would be surprised at how many people like this option.
in the city i climb it, limb it, drop the top, buck it down and leave it (AS REQUESTED BY THE CUSTOMER)
i'm HARDLY dropping a huge object into the biomass and leaving it.......<rolls eyes>
and you keep forgeting that its NOT your trees or properties, its the CLIENTS...if the client wants the tree notched and dropped and left, so be it, thats THEIR decision. If they want it climbed, taken down and left, thats their call, not mine, not yours. where do you get off being the tree police and dictating what MY customers should be doing? worry about your own customers, mine are happy and are repeat customers. And uh, by the way...up here in BC its perfectly acceptable to leave a tree on the ground....99% of my clients are on the surrounding islands, in the forest, or on huge tracts of land outside of the city. Maybe in your neck of the world this is'nt acceptable, but i live here, not there.
and i'm not really following why leaving firewood and a stack of limbs is Hazardous? can you elaborate? the homeowners wants the pile of firewood and the pile of limbs. Again, how is this hazardrous? they are disposing of it, however they see fit. Most of my clients fire up the Cat and make an even bigger pile of slash, then they burn it.
My customers would laugh if i told them that I wanted to carge more for chipping, firewood removal, and stump removal.
I have VERY little overhead costs, because i do not need a stumpgrinder, or a chipper, or a chip truck. I cater to clients that want a tree or twenty dropped, or climbed and dropped, or windfirmed. No frou frou city trees, no strata councils, no pruning, no cleanup, no dusting the lawn clean after.....
but hey, you keep on keeping on....if you feel so strongly about the issue, you jsut do your thing. Because i do VERY well for myself doing what i do, without advertising, simply by referals form happy customers. I have YET to clean up a tree i have dropped, nor do i ever plan too.
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
and furthermore, why would i give a rats arse about the ISA? It does'nt apply to my line of work up here.
where does it say that i have to clean up after i drop a tree? are there fines if i dont? who polices this? oh wait....there is no list or "offical" rules, there is no fines, there is no tree police so as far as im concerned, blow it out yer arse. i dont answer to you, i answer to my clients. They are quite happy.
ps, i left a twig on the ground, if your so upset by leaving a mess its here for you to clean up if you want, since it seems to offend you so much...would'nt want to reflect badly on people i dont even know or care about, or whose field of work i could give two hoots about.
lol
and furthermore, why would i give a rats arse about the ISA? It does'nt apply to my line of work up here.
where does it say that i have to clean up after i drop a tree? are there fines if i dont? who polices this? oh wait....there is no list or "offical" rules, there is no fines, there is no tree police so as far as im concerned, blow it out yer arse. i dont answer to you, i answer to my clients. They are quite happy.
ps, i left a twig on the ground, if your so upset by leaving a mess its here for you to clean up if you want, since it seems to offend you so much...would'nt want to reflect badly on people i dont even know or care about, or whose field of work i could give two hoots about.
lol
- Location
- Seattle WA
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing
[/ QUOTE ]
ok, i take it back.
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing
[/ QUOTE ]
ok, i take it back.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing
[/ QUOTE ]
ok, i take it back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahaha!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a lot of gettin up in his face for nothing
[/ QUOTE ]
ok, i take it back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahaha!
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
[/ QUOTE ]
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and many other have it listed as a word.
Request a tuition refund from the institute of higher education that offered you such a limited spectrum of interpretation into our native language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Also, go to www.irregardless.com its a cafe in Raleigh, NC. Go there, order up a round of latte's with the tuition refund money and contemplate with local scholars about the meaning of the word. Its a hot topic there.
I hope I didn't kill your buzz.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. Wikipedia is now the end all for scholastic inquiries?
I do grant you the fact that "Irregardless" is a word. I should have said that people who use that word sound simple and uneducated.
And as far as getting my tuition money back, it's a no-go. Devry University stands behind it's degree.
SZ
And no, you didn't kill my buzz.
[/ QUOTE ]
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and many other have it listed as a word.
Request a tuition refund from the institute of higher education that offered you such a limited spectrum of interpretation into our native language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Also, go to www.irregardless.com its a cafe in Raleigh, NC.
Go there, order up a round of latte's with the tuition refund money and contemplate with local scholars about the meaning of the word. Its a hot topic there. I hope I didn't kill your buzz.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. Wikipedia is now the end all for scholastic inquiries?
I do grant you the fact that "Irregardless" is a word. I should have said that people who use that word sound simple and uneducated.
And as far as getting my tuition money back, it's a no-go. Devry University stands behind it's degree.
SZ
And no, you didn't kill my buzz.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
hey tc1, if your too good for those jobs and are looking to give em away im just the guy to do em, seeing that i dont make thousands of dollars a week and i need to feed myself and my habits (darn that sparklin water and sherrill orders are startin to add up). what im sayin is, your acting better than the business that has takin care of you for however many years youve been in it, to act as if only the isa arbs out there know what they are talking about is just wrong, mark twain once said "ill never let my schooling get in the way of my education", im a non schooled arborist, im learning every day, im part of this website to help that, i turn to these folks everyday for helpful hints and good stories about there day, not all of these folks are schooled, but they are all smart and we all need to make a living, we have mouths to feed, familys to care for and customers to work for, and i for one, am going to do just that (maybe longer than expected because i just placed yet another order on sherrill, damn)
hey tc1, if your too good for those jobs and are looking to give em away im just the guy to do em, seeing that i dont make thousands of dollars a week and i need to feed myself and my habits (darn that sparklin water and sherrill orders are startin to add up). what im sayin is, your acting better than the business that has takin care of you for however many years youve been in it, to act as if only the isa arbs out there know what they are talking about is just wrong, mark twain once said "ill never let my schooling get in the way of my education", im a non schooled arborist, im learning every day, im part of this website to help that, i turn to these folks everyday for helpful hints and good stories about there day, not all of these folks are schooled, but they are all smart and we all need to make a living, we have mouths to feed, familys to care for and customers to work for, and i for one, am going to do just that (maybe longer than expected because i just placed yet another order on sherrill, damn)
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
i'm not worthy!!!!!
dont mind me treebuzz users...maybe i should clarify what i do for a living...i'm a treeclimber, 99.9% of my clients are construction/land clearing people. There is no arb reports, no disease reports, no permits, NO CLEANUP, no ISA cert needed, just windfirming, thinnig and removals/falling. Good ol fashioned hard work and reward. I do this, professionally, with low overhead and low expenses (chainsaw gas, oil, chains, food).
i'm not worthy!!!!!
dont mind me treebuzz users...maybe i should clarify what i do for a living...i'm a treeclimber, 99.9% of my clients are construction/land clearing people. There is no arb reports, no disease reports, no permits, NO CLEANUP, no ISA cert needed, just windfirming, thinnig and removals/falling. Good ol fashioned hard work and reward. I do this, professionally, with low overhead and low expenses (chainsaw gas, oil, chains, food).
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
Cyrus,
Consider starting a new thread on 'windfirming' or maybe try google
Cyrus,
Consider starting a new thread on 'windfirming' or maybe try google
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
i give them out to people like myself. i am no different than you. i didn't say I was too good for them.........not that at all. it's how the job is done, that's all. it's not the job, its how it's performed. you see. i started with a 1978 toyota landcruiser and drove around chasing hurricanes and tornadoes with a 9,000 pound warn winch as my means of directing falls and pulling debris off destroyed homes. yes, I earned my own way through this industry also. i don't have time for clients that don't want to pay me to do the job correctly. period. but i don't knock it. its a means to an end for a lot of others that are just like myself, but have a lower level of overhead and exposure. that's just how it works. when you become incorporated and expand, you have more to lose. I have a lot of climbers that I know and if I get a client looking for something I can't provide, I may bid it for them and give it away for a scratch back sometime. There is profit to be made, no doubt, but under a different overhead structure with less at risk on the downside. One thing I have seen is the customers who want cheap sometimes also demand a bit more than what was first agreed upon. It can be a real loser in the end. A lot of people out there need our assistance, and that's what this is all about. I have take trees off of houses pro bono before (as in no charge) for needy clients. however, my insurance agent doesn't give me a discount on my policy for that....and it doesn't pay the bills. i help those who i can. but i am of no help if my business doesn't exist to assist those who need it. therefore, self preservation is an obvious priority here. you of course have to do what it takes. i have been there. i am a contract climber at times, and at times I am a business owner. i have never left that. that's what brought me into the present. climbing. now i can provide more service, and i shoot for that.
i give them out to people like myself. i am no different than you. i didn't say I was too good for them.........not that at all. it's how the job is done, that's all. it's not the job, its how it's performed. you see. i started with a 1978 toyota landcruiser and drove around chasing hurricanes and tornadoes with a 9,000 pound warn winch as my means of directing falls and pulling debris off destroyed homes. yes, I earned my own way through this industry also. i don't have time for clients that don't want to pay me to do the job correctly. period. but i don't knock it. its a means to an end for a lot of others that are just like myself, but have a lower level of overhead and exposure. that's just how it works. when you become incorporated and expand, you have more to lose. I have a lot of climbers that I know and if I get a client looking for something I can't provide, I may bid it for them and give it away for a scratch back sometime. There is profit to be made, no doubt, but under a different overhead structure with less at risk on the downside. One thing I have seen is the customers who want cheap sometimes also demand a bit more than what was first agreed upon. It can be a real loser in the end. A lot of people out there need our assistance, and that's what this is all about. I have take trees off of houses pro bono before (as in no charge) for needy clients. however, my insurance agent doesn't give me a discount on my policy for that....and it doesn't pay the bills. i help those who i can. but i am of no help if my business doesn't exist to assist those who need it. therefore, self preservation is an obvious priority here. you of course have to do what it takes. i have been there. i am a contract climber at times, and at times I am a business owner. i have never left that. that's what brought me into the present. climbing. now i can provide more service, and i shoot for that.
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"
you don't need to explain that. i have been there, and would do it again in a heart beat. but it doesn't apply to all environments and places. neither do guidelines and tree ordinances. where I work, if a neighboring tree is damaged from a fall, the tree service can be cited for tree destruction and can receive unbelievably heavy fines for it. that's my current reality. it kind of makes you think twice about chancing a bad fall. this is a big urban area that is loaded with legislature and factions of developers and environmentalists constantly battling over tree ordinances. its a trip. so, being an ISA certified arborist is something I did only after working for over 10 years in the industry, to provide me with another tool to navigate through this diplomatically. it is a tool, and like our other skills and tools needs to be protected, developed and respected. in return the tool is there for us when we need it to help others. isa certification only came to me after years of self acquired knowledge. i became certified to test myself. i had the knowledge from my experiences, certification didn't give it to me. certification only tested me for what i had acquired, and now keeps tabs on me to assure i am not stagnating. it attested to the knowledge i had acquired. that's all it is. i learned everything from fellow climbers and tree workers. i respect you, don't get me wrong. i think we are looking at this topic in the same way.
you don't need to explain that. i have been there, and would do it again in a heart beat. but it doesn't apply to all environments and places. neither do guidelines and tree ordinances. where I work, if a neighboring tree is damaged from a fall, the tree service can be cited for tree destruction and can receive unbelievably heavy fines for it. that's my current reality. it kind of makes you think twice about chancing a bad fall. this is a big urban area that is loaded with legislature and factions of developers and environmentalists constantly battling over tree ordinances. its a trip. so, being an ISA certified arborist is something I did only after working for over 10 years in the industry, to provide me with another tool to navigate through this diplomatically. it is a tool, and like our other skills and tools needs to be protected, developed and respected. in return the tool is there for us when we need it to help others. isa certification only came to me after years of self acquired knowledge. i became certified to test myself. i had the knowledge from my experiences, certification didn't give it to me. certification only tested me for what i had acquired, and now keeps tabs on me to assure i am not stagnating. it attested to the knowledge i had acquired. that's all it is. i learned everything from fellow climbers and tree workers. i respect you, don't get me wrong. i think we are looking at this topic in the same way.
New threads New posts
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test
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Fruit tree holding on by a thread, client wants to get another year out of it. Thoughts?- Started by climbingmonkey24
- Replies: 46
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