Rules for "put it on the ground"

hl_tree

hl_tree

Location
New Fairfield, CT
Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

What are the rules you try to abide by when the customer just wants the tree or branches put on the ground?

A couple of jobs I have done lately that were put it on the ground jobs, I just bombed the trees into the woods, picked up my things and left. Some other trees got busted up in the process, but the customers understood that, that was what they were paying for.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]
I just bombed the trees into the woods, picked up my things and left. Some other trees got busted up in the process, but the customers understood that, that was what they were paying for.

[/ QUOTE ]The rules are what the two parties make them, but an arborist has options to make sure he gets to act like an arborist.
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If there are good plants below that you think should not be damaged, then build in the time to conserve them. If the client questions the time, explain that their future value is worth a little care. An Assignment is agreed upon, or not.

If a client said bottom dollar and I needed the work, I'd bid it to get it and then spend a little of my own extra time doing it the right way. But that's my rule; we each have our own.
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Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

I agree, whatever is agreed upon are the rules.
But generally, "where it lays, is where it stays" is the golden rule.
Ive done these types of jobs only to have the homeowner ask me to move the debris clear across the yard after the fact. I then have to explain that "no hauling" means "no hauling".

You need to be clear about your intentions up front, but mostly you need to be receptive to what the homeowner really wants.
Heres one I did with a fellow buzzer earlier this week. I did bring the Dingo to move some debris around, but that was mostly just to keep the DZ open. All in all, we left a terrible mess.
 

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Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

I wouldn't intentionally damage another tree if it could be avoided.
To tell a customer I could remove a tree if I was purposely allowed to damage another healthy tree isn't something I would consider.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]

If a client said bottom dollar and I needed the work, I'd bid it to get it and then spend a little of my own extra time doing it the right way. But that's my rule; we each have our own.
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[/ QUOTE ]
That's very noble of you. I know for a fact that I wouldn't. Thanks for making me feel like a lazy bum!
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

Ha- I dunno some schmuck I found wondering along the side of the road holding a sign that read "will work for sawdust"

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Seriously though, most excellent work on that nasty bad boy. I couldnt have done it without ya! (Well I coulda, but it would have really sucked!!!!!)

Call me with your schedule Vanilla, I need to lock in a day or two.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

hl tree,

I find that if a client is planning to clean up the mess... no problem. They usually know what they're in for. I run into problems when they "just want it dropped in the woods and cut up a bit. Once winter rolls around they can't stand looking at it and we get a call to bid hauling it out!
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

i run my own business and i mainly do "leave as it lay" jobs because of a lack of chipper and truck, i offer this service begrudgingly because i always feel as if i havent accomplished anything, im always unsatisfied by the mess and honestly, i almost dont want to put my name on it, i always leave the option of chipping as long as they are willing to pay for it, seldom do they take this option, on jobs like this, i always cut everything as if i was going to be chipping it (because as tlhamel said, you will get the occastional call to come and chip it up) and i always cut all wood into firewood size, if any trees get damaged by my working on another tree (hasnt happened yet) then i would take care of those trees as well, just because a person wants one tree down doesnt mean you should harm others just for being in the same area. i never just drop a tree, i always climb and piece out safely to avoid damaging other trees and landscapeing around it
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

The golden rule is to get paid for the job you do. The removal is likely the technical part of the job and you should be paid for your skill and doing something most other people cannot do. The cleanup is where the equipment and big business expenses comes in.

Since I have to pay expense for insurance, leases etc. even when it is chop and drop I need to make enough money to more than cover expenses and I need to make it clear that chop and drop is just that. No cleanup, no stacking, no moving things, no making everything manageable pieces for an eighty year old.

Similar rules go for stumping where the client cleans up the wood chips. It must be made abundantly clear where the gringind starts and stops and that chips will be flying.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

Give the job to a needy climber for a bonus weekend gig. That kind of work isn't for professionally insured tree services, let alone ISA Certified Arborists.

Many times they are simply living beyond their means, and I am not the guy that will be their savior. I get paid, or I don't do the job. Period. If they don't want to pay me to do it correctly, then I give the job away where they can get "more" for their money to a guy who can fit the bill (normally a contract climber assuming all risk of failures personally, and un associated with me). I let the home owner make the call on that option.

Its the worst kind of advertising for a business to leave a huge mess. Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property". No, he won't make that admission. It will be quite the opposite. You will be the guy that promised to haul it off and didn't. You took the money and never came back. I usually get the call where "hey, I had such and such tree
service do a job and they left the debris...took my money...never came back". Nobody admits that they are a cheap dumb-[censored], let alone a plain dumb-[censored]. That goes against the definition of dumb-[censored]. If they knew they were a dumb-[censored], they wouldn't be a dumb-[censored]. So, its probably just better to avoid dumb asses and give the work out to someone else. Or, price it to at least firewood it to show some form of completion with the task.

Slam and Go is great for storm clean up, but real sloppy and unprofessional in an Urban Setting.

Truly the worst kind of advertising. Give someone a payment plan and get a decent ammount down, on a signed contract.
Set up a visa/mc charge 30 or 60 days down the road.

There are ways for them to afford our professional services, and there are ways for them to coerce us into unprofessional behavior. That only drops the standard and gives a bad image to the entire industry.

I think any time someone wants half a job, fine, collect that upfront, take a payment on the rest, or maybe a barter exchanged for that canoe up side of the garage :).

Whatever it takes. I have given away several "satellite pruning jobs" and slam and go propositions because they are real messy, and just against "care".

However: leaving a tree on the ground isn't in itself bad. Its the presentation of it. Finish it off clean. Stack the limbs into a shelter in the natural area for ground dwelling birds and animals to nest in.

Process the trunk into stepping stones or blocks to lines a natural area. Roll the trunk back, spin it, move it a bit if possible....but don't haul it. Trunks are good biomass for the ecosystem. Lots of food there, and it provides for the food chain down to the microscopic level.

Its the Urban nature design of grooming, pruning, grass, lawn ornaments...etc. that has been sold to society as "correct" that is hurting most trees anyway. Leaving more debris on the forest floor (even the urban forest) is actually a trend that should be considered.

Problem is, most yards are too well groomed to do this. It doesn't look right, and there is no space for extra biomass. Therefore, we haul it off to cater to this social "norm".

So, slamming and leaving may work out with proper care of the other trees, and a final touch up to make it safe (no snares, hangers, spears).....and maybe even cleaning up the trunk and stacking some limbs.
As Tom Dunlap points out: price it in.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]
Give the job to a needy climber for a bonus weekend gig. That kind of work isn't for professionally insured tree services, let alone ISA Certified Arborists.

Many times they are simply living beyond their means, and I am not the guy that will be their savior. I get paid, or I don't do the job. Period. If they don't want to pay me to do it correctly, then I give the job away where they can get "more" for their money to a guy who can fit the bill (normally a contract climber assuming all risk of failures personally, and un associated with me). I let the home owner make the call on that option.

Its the worst kind of advertising for a business to leave a huge mess. Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property". No, he won't make that admission. It will be quite the opposite. You will be the guy that promised to haul it off and didn't. You took the money and never came back. I usually get the call where "hey, I had such and such tree
service do a job and they left the debris...took my money...never came back". Nobody admits that they are a cheap dumb-[censored], let alone a plain dumb-[censored]. That goes against the definition of dumb-[censored]. If they knew they were a dumb-[censored], they wouldn't be a dumb-[censored]. So, its probably just better to avoid dumb asses and give the work out to someone else. Or, price it to at least firewood it to show some form of completion with the task.

Slam and Go is great for storm clean up, but real sloppy and unprofessional in an Urban Setting.

Truly the worst kind of advertising. Give someone a payment plan and get a decent ammount down, on a signed contract.
Set up a visa/mc charge 30 or 60 days down the road.

There are ways for them to afford our professional services, and there are ways for them to coerce us into unprofessional behavior. That only drops the standard and gives a bad image to the entire industry.

I think any time someone wants half a job, fine, collect that upfront, take a payment on the rest, or maybe a barter exchanged for that canoe up side of the garage :).

Whatever it takes. I have given away several "satellite pruning jobs" and slam and go propositions because they are real messy, and just against "care".

However: leaving a tree on the ground isn't in itself bad. Its the presentation of it. Finish it off clean. Stack the limbs into a shelter in the natural area for ground dwelling birds and animals to nest in.

Process the trunk into stepping stones or blocks to lines a natural area. Roll the trunk back, spin it, move it a bit if possible....but don't haul it. Trunks are good biomass for the ecosystem. Lots of food there, and it provides for the food chain down to the microscopic level.

Its the Urban nature design of grooming, pruning, grass, lawn ornaments...etc. that has been sold to society as "correct" that is hurting most trees anyway. Leaving more debris on the forest floor (even the urban forest) is actually a trend that should be considered.

Problem is, most yards are too well groomed to do this. It doesn't look right, and there is no space for extra biomass. Therefore, we haul it off to cater to this social "norm".

So, slamming and leaving may work out with proper care of the other trees, and a final touch up to make it safe (no snares, hangers, spears).....and maybe even cleaning up the trunk and stacking some limbs.
As Tom Dunlap points out: price it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more bad advice than I've seen in one post in quite a while!
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Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

Just put it on the ground! It's a common request where I live, but not always simple as that. For liability reasons I will do what is necessary to make the tree safe for the property owner to work on after I leave. That may include bucking out any binds, relieving supporting limbs and bent over saplings, cutting down broken trees that lean over the one felled, and removing any widow makers overhead. Plus I'll often buck the larger sections of the tree I know their saws can't.

Mainly stick with the liability issues. I feel a lot more comfortable when I leave.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]
Give the job to a needy climber for a bonus weekend gig. That kind of work isn't for professionally insured tree services, let alone ISA Certified Arborists.

Many times they are simply living beyond their means, and I am not the guy that will be their savior. I get paid, or I don't do the job. Period. If they don't want to pay me to do it correctly, then I give the job away where they can get "more" for their money to a guy who can fit the bill (normally a contract climber assuming all risk of failures personally, and un associated with me). I let the home owner make the call on that option.

Its the worst kind of advertising for a business to leave a huge mess. Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property". No, he won't make that admission. It will be quite the opposite. You will be the guy that promised to haul it off and didn't. You took the money and never came back. I usually get the call where "hey, I had such and such tree
service do a job and they left the debris...took my money...never came back". Nobody admits that they are a cheap dumb-[censored], let alone a plain dumb-[censored]. That goes against the definition of dumb-[censored]. If they knew they were a dumb-[censored], they wouldn't be a dumb-[censored]. So, its probably just better to avoid dumb asses and give the work out to someone else. Or, price it to at least firewood it to show some form of completion with the task.

Slam and Go is great for storm clean up, but real sloppy and unprofessional in an Urban Setting.

Truly the worst kind of advertising. Give someone a payment plan and get a decent ammount down, on a signed contract.
Set up a visa/mc charge 30 or 60 days down the road.

There are ways for them to afford our professional services, and there are ways for them to coerce us into unprofessional behavior. That only drops the standard and gives a bad image to the entire industry.

I think any time someone wants half a job, fine, collect that upfront, take a payment on the rest, or maybe a barter exchanged for that canoe up side of the garage :).

Whatever it takes. I have given away several "satellite pruning jobs" and slam and go propositions because they are real messy, and just against "care".

However: leaving a tree on the ground isn't in itself bad. Its the presentation of it. Finish it off clean. Stack the limbs into a shelter in the natural area for ground dwelling birds and animals to nest in.

Process the trunk into stepping stones or blocks to lines a natural area. Roll the trunk back, spin it, move it a bit if possible....but don't haul it. Trunks are good biomass for the ecosystem. Lots of food there, and it provides for the food chain down to the microscopic level.

Its the Urban nature design of grooming, pruning, grass, lawn ornaments...etc. that has been sold to society as "correct" that is hurting most trees anyway. Leaving more debris on the forest floor (even the urban forest) is actually a trend that should be considered.

Problem is, most yards are too well groomed to do this. It doesn't look right, and there is no space for extra biomass. Therefore, we haul it off to cater to this social "norm".

So, slamming and leaving may work out with proper care of the other trees, and a final touch up to make it safe (no snares, hangers, spears).....and maybe even cleaning up the trunk and stacking some limbs.
As Tom Dunlap points out: price it in.

[/ QUOTE ]


Everyone is entitled to their opinion..............this one I don't agree with. If everything is spelled out for the customer and the so-called mess is something that they agree upon then do it!!!!
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]
Give the job to a needy climber for a bonus weekend gig. That kind of work isn't for professionally insured tree services, let alone ISA Certified Arborists.

Many times they are simply living beyond their means, and I am not the guy that will be their savior. I get paid, or I don't do the job. Period. If they don't want to pay me to do it correctly, then I give the job away where they can get "more" for their money to a guy who can fit the bill (normally a contract climber assuming all risk of failures personally, and un associated with me). I let the home owner make the call on that option.

Its the worst kind of advertising for a business to leave a huge mess. Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property". No, he won't make that admission. It will be quite the opposite. You will be the guy that promised to haul it off and didn't. You took the money and never came back. I usually get the call where "hey, I had such and such tree
service do a job and they left the debris...took my money...never came back". Nobody admits that they are a cheap dumb-[censored], let alone a plain dumb-[censored]. That goes against the definition of dumb-[censored]. If they knew they were a dumb-[censored], they wouldn't be a dumb-[censored]. So, its probably just better to avoid dumb asses and give the work out to someone else. Or, price it to at least firewood it to show some form of completion with the task.

Slam and Go is great for storm clean up, but real sloppy and unprofessional in an Urban Setting.

Truly the worst kind of advertising. Give someone a payment plan and get a decent ammount down, on a signed contract.
Set up a visa/mc charge 30 or 60 days down the road.

There are ways for them to afford our professional services, and there are ways for them to coerce us into unprofessional behavior. That only drops the standard and gives a bad image to the entire industry.

I think any time someone wants half a job, fine, collect that upfront, take a payment on the rest, or maybe a barter exchanged for that canoe up side of the garage :).

Whatever it takes. I have given away several "satellite pruning jobs" and slam and go propositions because they are real messy, and just against "care".

However: leaving a tree on the ground isn't in itself bad. Its the presentation of it. Finish it off clean. Stack the limbs into a shelter in the natural area for ground dwelling birds and animals to nest in.

Process the trunk into stepping stones or blocks to lines a natural area. Roll the trunk back, spin it, move it a bit if possible....but don't haul it. Trunks are good biomass for the ecosystem. Lots of food there, and it provides for the food chain down to the microscopic level.

Its the Urban nature design of grooming, pruning, grass, lawn ornaments...etc. that has been sold to society as "correct" that is hurting most trees anyway. Leaving more debris on the forest floor (even the urban forest) is actually a trend that should be considered.

Problem is, most yards are too well groomed to do this. It doesn't look right, and there is no space for extra biomass. Therefore, we haul it off to cater to this social "norm".

So, slamming and leaving may work out with proper care of the other trees, and a final touch up to make it safe (no snares, hangers, spears).....and maybe even cleaning up the trunk and stacking some limbs.
As Tom Dunlap points out: price it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

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yea ok...whatever....bad advertising...right.....

when the CUSTOMER wants you to simply drop it and put it on the ground......how is that bad advertising? its not YOUR tree....its the CUSTOMERS...... therefor its THEIR DECISION as to what they want to do with the tree. Maybe they dont have a lot of money, its NOT YOUR CALL what to do with the tree, its THE CUSTOMERS (and their money too). Who gives a rats [censored] if they ONLY want the tree dropped and left? why is it such a big deal to you? notch and drop, couple hun in the pocket, move on to the next job. Quite simple really. (then and again i keep forgeting that the hoighty toighty holier than thou arbs only work on the primo, hand picked cherry jobs, god forbid work on a tree where the customer simply wants it on the ground. Oh the HORROR of having to work a job like that!!!!)

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Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

qoute "That kind of work isn't for professionally insured tree services, let alone ISA Certified Arborists."
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so i guess if a "professionally insured tree service or a ISA Certified Arborists" does this kind of work, does that make them "unprofessional"??? well i guess EVERY professionally insured tree service and ISA Certified Arborist across the world must be unprofessional now....because we/us/they have ALL done simple 'notch and drops" as requsted by the customers.....

yup, we're all unprofessional now, only one person is'nt in the whole entire wolrd...

yup
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Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

Jerry and I are on the same page. It would be irresponsible to leave limbs up in the air expecting that someone who can't fell a tree is capable of flat-dropping the crown. If someone binds their saw or runs it into the dirt while limbing it won't bother me one bit. If I ever left a tree in the air and someone was injured getting it bucked up I would regret that for my whole life.

My cut and run jobs were all laid out relatively neat. Certainly not 'pick up stick' fashion.
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the guy is going to tell his friends as they are having a beer on the deck "yeah, I was a cheap [censored], I don't care about the environment, I wanted to save money irregardless of human safety and insurance protection to my personal wealth and property".

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize you are paraphrasing what the client is saying to his friend, but I have a personal vendetta against the word "irregardless", mainly because it is not a word.

And I felt that since everyone else was criticizing your post, I should chime in as well.

Welcome to the Buzz!
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SZ
 
Re: Rules for \"put it on the ground\"

Your professionalism or lack there of will generally speak for itself There will always be costomers who are impossable to please and their friend will know there blowin' smoke. I agree about modern landscapes being too nice and "unnatural" but those who can,often choose to have them that way. I often did work for clients who had full time staff to handle landscape issues and were not cutting corners by not having us do the cleanup. We were hired to do what they couldnt or their crew couldnt. they were able to hire a professional/ISA Certified Arborist because they knew the tree work, rigged removal or prune job was where they needed a professional,not a laborer. TC1 your standards are lofty but dogmatic and do not fit with the reality of most of the rest of us.IMHO
 
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