mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" ! 
Rope Wrench Ruminations
- Thread starter GibsonTreeCare
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
- Location
- Lexington, Kentucky
I'll still rock DdRT from time to time, but in answer to your question X, I use either a base tie techinque, where I secure one side of my line to the base before I go up, or I use the friction saver ring/ring trick, which allows me to go through multiple redirects while only putting my weight on my TIP, instead of twice my weight in the case of a basal tie.
So, if I need a new tip, just crawl threw or throw my wrench and hitch through a suitable crotch and reconnect and away I go.
So, if I need a new tip, just crawl threw or throw my wrench and hitch through a suitable crotch and reconnect and away I go.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
there are two situations when I have to ask the ground person to retie. And I do trust my ground person to retie but it is actually pretty rare. The first scenario is when I run out of rope because I have gone so far from my original tie in point that I can no longer reach the ground. I have goon through 200 feet of rope mostly horizontally many times. The other time is when I have gone through so many redirects that I worry that if I go through another I wont be able to pull my rope through. Recrotching is a thing I am glad I hardly ever do. I love looking up and seeing my "web". through the canopy.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
- Location
- Columbus Ohio
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I use the friction saver ring/ring trick, which allows me to go through multiple redirects while only putting my weight on my TIP, instead of twice my weight in the case of a basal tie.
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Wahhhhhh???? I guess I missed something. Care to elaborate adrian?
I use the friction saver ring/ring trick, which allows me to go through multiple redirects while only putting my weight on my TIP, instead of twice my weight in the case of a basal tie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wahhhhhh???? I guess I missed something. Care to elaborate adrian?
lumberjackson
Participating member
- Location
- Portland, OR
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I use the friction saver ring/ring trick, which allows me to go through multiple redirects while only putting my weight on my TIP, instead of twice my weight in the case of a basal tie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wahhhhhh???? I guess I missed something. Care to elaborate adrian?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah it's buried in several of the 8 pages of the "RW Feedback?" thread... mostly page #3. Here's a couple pictures I dug up from in there, hopefully they help
-Photo by Cary Gibson
-Photo by Kevin Bingham
[ QUOTE ]
I use the friction saver ring/ring trick, which allows me to go through multiple redirects while only putting my weight on my TIP, instead of twice my weight in the case of a basal tie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wahhhhhh???? I guess I missed something. Care to elaborate adrian?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah it's buried in several of the 8 pages of the "RW Feedback?" thread... mostly page #3. Here's a couple pictures I dug up from in there, hopefully they help
-Photo by Cary Gibson
-Photo by Kevin Bingham
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I think its been determined the rigging plate not necessary. Butterfly alone works with a biner for good measure. This was a concept ward came up with in a drawing.
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
[ QUOTE ]
I think its been determined the rigging plate not necessary. Butterfly alone works with a biner for good measure. This was a concept ward came up with in a drawing.
[/ QUOTE ]
I remember that thread and you were concerned the butterfly would jam in the small ring. Have you determined that's not really a problem? That'd be great news!!! I've been using it that way (without rigging plate) and just figured I'd go up and get it, IF it ever jammed. It never did. I do use a q-link for backup, though.
I think its been determined the rigging plate not necessary. Butterfly alone works with a biner for good measure. This was a concept ward came up with in a drawing.
[/ QUOTE ]
I remember that thread and you were concerned the butterfly would jam in the small ring. Have you determined that's not really a problem? That'd be great news!!! I've been using it that way (without rigging plate) and just figured I'd go up and get it, IF it ever jammed. It never did. I do use a q-link for backup, though.
- Location
- Lexington, Kentucky
Never had to use a rigging plate at all, just use the butterfly knot with a biner through it and clipped to the leg of the rope for a back up.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he is talking about natural redirects within the tree. No hardware required.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he is talking about natural redirects within the tree. No hardware required.
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
Maybe I missed something... Is there a reason the ring and ring fs is being used? it seems to me the reasons we like SRT is because we dont have to isolate the line all the time, we dont have to worry about getting a FS stuck, and we dont have the wear on the rope because it doesnt move through the crotch. Also in the picture above (its probably just for demonstration purposes but) I would think the rope cinched to the limb would be better.
Using a r&r you have to isolate, you have that chance of getting it stuck (unless you are a FS God), you even have to use a throw line to retrieve it in the end. And there is very little rope (or crotch) wear (that I have seen) using SRT.
Like I said I might have missed something?
Using a r&r you have to isolate, you have that chance of getting it stuck (unless you are a FS God), you even have to use a throw line to retrieve it in the end. And there is very little rope (or crotch) wear (that I have seen) using SRT.
Like I said I might have missed something?
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I think its another trick up the sleeve. Can be used if rigging might interfere with a base tie, but you still want redirects. The best option for a retrievable ariel tii in point as opposed to a basal tie in point. Just a running bowline is not retrieveable unless you stay the course on descent and dont redirect. I only occasionally employ this technique
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he is talking about natural redirects within the tree. No hardware required.
[/ QUOTE ]
yep Casey is right, natural in-tree redirects, the best kind
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
What?
Okay, how are you dealing with a big tree trimming where you need to have your tie in point change several times?
If you choke the tie in point, you gotta go back up and get it.
If you have it through a crotch and to the base of the tree, you have to trust the groundperson he will secure you correctly.
If you use a "re-direct" you have to go back and get them too.
I definitely like SRT in certain situations, can't see it all the time. Not yet, unless you can help me see better.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, you don't have to go back and get redirects with SRT and the wrench, I have had 8-10 of them, they all pull right out from the ground, no probs. And I tie it myself before I go up, i have worked the crown of huge trees with a single TIP, it is truly all about planning the climb.
[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> </font> Is there any chance of you posting up a picture as im currently using re-directs but can only work out how to use one retrievable one at a time, Cheers Ian
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he is talking about natural redirects within the tree. No hardware required.
[/ QUOTE ]
yep Casey is right, natural in-tree redirects, the best kind
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I missed something... Is there a reason the ring and ring fs is being used? it seems to me the reasons we like SRT is because we dont have to isolate the line all the time, we dont have to worry about getting a FS stuck, and we dont have the wear on the rope because it doesn't move through the crotch. Also in the picture above (its probably just for demonstration purposes but) I would think the rope cinched to the limb would be better.
Using a r&r you have to isolate, you have that chance of getting it stuck (unless you are a FS God), you even have to use a throw line to retrieve it in the end. And there is very little rope (or crotch) wear (that I have seen) using SRT.
Like I said I might have missed something?
[/ QUOTE ]
You've raised some great questions that go to the heart many of the "Ruminations" in this thread. There are many others, here, that can offer much better answers than I. But, since I've used SRT exclusively for 'working' a tree the last couple of years, I'll relate some of my experiences that might help answer your question: "Is there a reason the ring and ring fs is being used?" ... sorry this will be a LONG 'rumination'.
First, yes IMO, there is ONE reason to use an R&R for SRT. I have seen wear on the rope and on the cambium with a ground anchor. Apparently, due to stretch, the rope does 'saw' back and forth across a branch during ascent and work. So, I like to use a rope sleeve over the branch when ground anchored.
Granted a ground anchor facilitates rescue but it's often a PITA to relocate. If lucky and an isolation comes easy, I prefer cinching the TIP. It's more versatile and easier to relocate when topside. However, when the work plan requires a lot of natural redirects, that is when the R&R becomes useful.
It's been my experience (and others) when using a cinched TIP, it takes very few natural redirects to make it virtually impossible to pull the cinch out from the ground. The R&R, rigged as pictured in the post above, makes it relatively easy to pull out many natural redirects.
So, IMHO the R&R make sense only IF the isolation is easy, IF the TIP is likely to be moved, IF the work plan uses many redirects, and IF the retrieval is likely to be easy. That's a lot of IF's ... so like Kevin says: "I only occasionally employ this technique." But, an R&R does have A use in SRT.
Maybe I missed something... Is there a reason the ring and ring fs is being used? it seems to me the reasons we like SRT is because we dont have to isolate the line all the time, we dont have to worry about getting a FS stuck, and we dont have the wear on the rope because it doesn't move through the crotch. Also in the picture above (its probably just for demonstration purposes but) I would think the rope cinched to the limb would be better.
Using a r&r you have to isolate, you have that chance of getting it stuck (unless you are a FS God), you even have to use a throw line to retrieve it in the end. And there is very little rope (or crotch) wear (that I have seen) using SRT.
Like I said I might have missed something?
[/ QUOTE ]
You've raised some great questions that go to the heart many of the "Ruminations" in this thread. There are many others, here, that can offer much better answers than I. But, since I've used SRT exclusively for 'working' a tree the last couple of years, I'll relate some of my experiences that might help answer your question: "Is there a reason the ring and ring fs is being used?" ... sorry this will be a LONG 'rumination'.
First, yes IMO, there is ONE reason to use an R&R for SRT. I have seen wear on the rope and on the cambium with a ground anchor. Apparently, due to stretch, the rope does 'saw' back and forth across a branch during ascent and work. So, I like to use a rope sleeve over the branch when ground anchored.
Granted a ground anchor facilitates rescue but it's often a PITA to relocate. If lucky and an isolation comes easy, I prefer cinching the TIP. It's more versatile and easier to relocate when topside. However, when the work plan requires a lot of natural redirects, that is when the R&R becomes useful.
It's been my experience (and others) when using a cinched TIP, it takes very few natural redirects to make it virtually impossible to pull the cinch out from the ground. The R&R, rigged as pictured in the post above, makes it relatively easy to pull out many natural redirects.
So, IMHO the R&R make sense only IF the isolation is easy, IF the TIP is likely to be moved, IF the work plan uses many redirects, and IF the retrieval is likely to be easy. That's a lot of IF's ... so like Kevin says: "I only occasionally employ this technique." But, an R&R does have A use in SRT.
...AND, a base tie, directed over 1 limb will introduce 2x the weight of the climber to that limb, whereas isolating that same limb (through R&R, etc...) will only introduce 1x the weight of the climber. Another big difference worth noting again.
[ QUOTE ]
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here, except crane work for obvious reasons. I've used every method given here except the FS set up. The more I use it the better I get at deciding how to keep the rope clear on the base tie, it's quite fun actually. Got to love the web of redirects! The best part is every redirect adds stability. If it's a little bouncy on the ride up, use a couple re-directs and it's solid as a rock on the way down.
mine is all I use, no more DdRT, say it together now...NO MORE "Doubly- difficult Rope Technique" !
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here, except crane work for obvious reasons. I've used every method given here except the FS set up. The more I use it the better I get at deciding how to keep the rope clear on the base tie, it's quite fun actually. Got to love the web of redirects! The best part is every redirect adds stability. If it's a little bouncy on the ride up, use a couple re-directs and it's solid as a rock on the way down.
Ah makes sense i mislead myself in the reading thinking how the heck does he manage that many re-directs.
