Rope Bridge Breaks

Perfectly good explanation, I realized it's not worth my time or effort to splice when I can pay a few bucks and have it done PROFESSIONALLY and have it backed by the manufacturer.

I sucked at splicing. Big time. Human crane was actually pretty damn good at it and still splices today
 
What do you mean backed by the manufacturer?

When one fails if you live you can sue them? Or when one fails they do a recall of all their splices and you scramble to get them all out of service? Then scramble to find suitable replacements?

You should really keep at it, eventually you'll be 100% confident with the splices you make, then when a recall comes along you can sit back and relax.

You DO realize these "PROS" you mention were simply trained in house by another "PRO" splicer who in turn was trained in the same manner. Pretty good likelihood none (or few)of them have ANY working expereince with the splices, they just sit at a bench and turn out splice after splice all day everyday, like an assembly line.
 
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again. just cut it off and move on. splicing your own gear gives you more piece of mind anyway.

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Hahahaha. Maybe for the guy who thinks he spliced it right.

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I spliced my own double braid poison ivy lanyard and it took a couple tries to get the one I have now but I am really happy with what I got now and trust it 100%.
 
Anyone under the tutalidge of Rich or John are okay in my book.

Tree climber. Ever get your stuff break tested?

You guys are missing my point. Your splice only has to make you feel safe, I could care less otherwise. For me, knowing that a well trained professional like Richard Lee Hattier or John C Hartenberg (for the record I made up both middle names to make it sound more official) spliced my goods is all the assurance I need. If you feel good with your splices have at it kids, but I strongly recommend you have it break tested for your own good. I think a lot of you home splicers would be surprised (both with high and low breaking strengths)

For the record. I was the only person to ever get left back at a splicing symposium. I blame drinking, a lack of sleep and Jeremy Brown for it.
 
The solution is simple for rope bridges. If you use them and like them fine, but switch them out often and consistently.

They cost about as much as a split tail and are of similar length. Every time you get a new split tail get a new bridge.

Does it seem excessive? Is it too expensive? How much is your safety, piece of mind and professionalism worth?

The point is develop a system, and follow it. Expecting any cordage equipment to last for an extended period of time, under the conditions that a bridge experiences, is not reasonable.

Tony
 
It is kind of amazing what some splices break at. As far as having this training b.s. that Tophopper talks about it's done to manufacturers specs and this splices and methods have been break tested. There are concrete results to back it up. I splice my own stuff and it's either 100% right or I don't climb on it. As far as the ropes used for bridges, you need to understand the material and the construction of the rope before you start throwing just any old material there. Some have self abrasive properties and with the covers cannot be regularly inspected. On the other hand the bridges from glide saddles have been tried and true. They are over kill for the application but have stood the test of time. There are other suitable options for bridges in my opinion. I would shy away from the double braids. I would go with something like a 16 strand if you're just going to tie one on. This way you can visually inspect the load bearing portion of the rope. As the cover is where all your strength comes from and the core is just a filler.
 
I've been using 7/16" KMIII for my bridges for a long time. No splice of course, just DFM for stoppers.

Does it seem excessive to adopt a shorter bridge change-out schedule? I don't think so.
 
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What does this even mean? Were these bridges that the climber had paid someone to make? Or Weaver branded Cougar replacement bridges? And that the ends were tucked under the sheath of the rope rather than spliced into the core? And they happened to have another bridge sourced at the same time?

At any rate, two years is a long time to work on the same bridge if it's being used everyday. I would guess if the bridge 'snapped right in the middle' it's an issue of self-abrasive fiber (HMWPE or the like) being improperly used, rather than a bad splice.

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Easy Cowboy!! I am merely passing on some info that I got late at night and posted right after because I thought that if I owned a Weaver Couger I would want to know. Thats it. I am not claiming to know all the answers and I was trying to get more info but that's what I got. Geez What is with the attitude from all these sites. I thought this one was different from the loud mouths over at AS. Lets hope so. How about I'll get the guys number and you can phone him yourself.
 
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How is the climber doing and what are the extent of his injuries? Seems like the more important question to me at this point.

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Wow. I guess the older the wiser. The climber is bedridden and has talked with a lawyer. Thanks for caring. I guess you never know what is going to happen after your feet touch the floor in the morning. This job is dangerous enough, you have to be able to trust your equipment.
 
Rickytree- I think people are expressing concern with your posts because you're raising alarms about things that I think most people here (can't speak for everyone) but most people here are already well aware of. My first thought when I saw your thread was, "CRAP- NOT ANOTHER ONE!" but then I clicked on it and opened up your post and saw that it was old news.

It's good you're helping us keep it at the forefront of our collective minds- that's for sure. I think people would've liked it presented either on some of the old threads or if it is a new thread, then with some new info or something of the sort- that's all. No hard feelings!

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What do you mean backed by the manufacturer?...
...You DO realize these "PROS" you mention were simply trained in house by another "PRO" splicer who in turn was trained in the same manner. Pretty good likelihood none (or few)of them have ANY working expereince with the splices, they just sit at a bench and turn out splice after splice all day everyday, like an assembly line.

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Top- I think the opposite is true. Though there are "some" places where a person can get splices from assembly line splicers (we won't say any names), the pros he mentioned were Rich and John. I know Rich is an accomplished climber and John I don't know personally, but I think he climbs. These are the kinds of guys that you WANT splicing for you. In my ( extremely, extremely, extremely biased) opinion, you want someone that understands the mechanics and insides of rope AND exactly how we all are using it in the tree. Not conceptually, but intimately. Am I wrong, or do Rich and John not meet these qualifications.

Keep in mind, though- I might be misreading your post. It's late and I should be sleeping now!

Oh- I do agree with you that he should just learn how to splice, but I ALSO agree with the fact that some people either can't do it, don't have the patience to learn how to do it, or require a LOOOOOOOOT more practice and teaching time to understand splicing. It isn't for everyone and some of the worst splicers I've seen are very good tree climbers.

I started splicing because of lack of trust in other peoples' or companies' splices. Now I sell my splices to other people :) Funny how that works.

I think we should stick with polyester/nylon for our bridges right now. I haven't seen another better bridge material yet.

love
nick
 
Thanks for the post Nick. I believe this is different from the other posts concerning the black with pink ended bridges because this is a black and yellow one. While I was on the phone with my friend I was on the computer looking up info on the bridge. I saw that it was black with pink. I then asked what colour is the bridge? He says black and yellow. I then knew that I should post something. I have no way to contact the victim and was posting info that I got from a second party. My intention was not to post incorrect info about a product, but was to perhaps protect other individuals with the bridge. I will try to get more info and some pics.
 
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Rickytree- I think people are expressing concern with your posts because you're raising alarms about things that I think most people here (can't speak for everyone) but most people here are already well aware of. My first thought when I saw your thread was, "CRAP- NOT ANOTHER ONE!" but then I clicked on it and opened up your post and saw that it was old news.

It's good you're helping us keep it at the forefront of our collective minds- that's for sure. I think people would've liked it presented either on some of the old threads or if it is a new thread, then with some new info or something of the sort- that's all. No hard feelings!

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What do you mean backed by the manufacturer?...
...You DO realize these "PROS" you mention were simply trained in house by another "PRO" splicer who in turn was trained in the same manner. Pretty good likelihood none (or few)of them have ANY working expereince with the splices, they just sit at a bench and turn out splice after splice all day everyday, like an assembly line.

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Top- I think the opposite is true. Though there are "some" places where a person can get splices from assembly line splicers (we won't say any names), the pros he mentioned were Rich and John. I know Rich is an accomplished climber and John I don't know personally, but I think he climbs. These are the kinds of guys that you WANT splicing for you. In my ( extremely, extremely, extremely biased) opinion, you want someone that understands the mechanics and insides of rope AND exactly how we all are using it in the tree. Not conceptually, but intimately. Am I wrong, or do Rich and John not meet these qualifications.

Keep in mind, though- I might be misreading your post. It's late and I should be sleeping now!

Oh- I do agree with you that he should just learn how to splice, but I ALSO agree with the fact that some people either can't do it, don't have the patience to learn how to do it, or require a LOOOOOOOOT more practice and teaching time to understand splicing. It isn't for everyone and some of the worst splicers I've seen are very good tree climbers.

I started splicing because of lack of trust in other peoples' or companies' splices. Now I sell my splices to other people :) Funny how that works.

I think we should stick with polyester/nylon for our bridges right now. I haven't seen another better bridge material yet.

love
nick

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what about the web bridges Nick? I like them a lot, easy to inspect, and strong as hell
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I think, polyester for rope, and nylon for webbing, yes?

And everytime I climb, i climb on Nick and Rich's work, trust it 110% with my life, which states a lot in 1 sentence...
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Sorry if my post had 'attitude', I was only trying to get some clarification about the problem. It's tragic that this fellow was injured, but to know what the error was that caused the accident would be good.

I appreciate the concern you took in posting Rickytree.
 
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Sorry if my post had 'attitude', I was only trying to get some clarification about the problem. It's tragic that this fellow was injured, but to know what the error was that caused the accident would be good.

I appreciate the concern you took in posting Rickytree.

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Hey no prob Gord! I got alittle on edge myself with dealing with all the idiots over at AS. Don't get me wrong some good guys over there, but man some are just too much. I will try to post more info when I get it. The guy I got it off of was drinking, it was late, and he didn't really know to much. He even said that the inside of the bridge was powder. I don't know what this means but will try to get pics and a better understanding of the bridge and the victim's condition.
 
I know someone who was curious about this as well and from what he heard, steel core bridges aren't made because they are conductive.

I'm not saying this makes sense, I'm just saying this is what he was told from a credible source.
 
Joshua- I'd fully support a steel core bridge. I've never spliced the stuff- but someone who could, could easily come up with a small eye-eye sling.

Conductive? So is aluminum? D-rings are conductive.

I think we don't have them simply because no one has done it yet and it would be a challenge to figure it out. It would have to have no swages and never have rings or biners rubbing on the steel...but it's possible.

Thanks for the props, cary! I would whole-heartedly say webbing is great for bridges. My master II has a rope bridge (made by me) and my butterfly, treeflex and nikosi all have webbing bridges. When I got my treeflex, I told myself I'd replace the bridge with one of my own when it wears out and it hasn't yet.

love
nick
 
The cover on a steel cable bridge would wear out extremely fast, it would also probably bunch up. But hell, give it a try, it might be just the thing.



The statement about the failed bridge looking like powder makes sense. When my Vectran bridge severed, it was so worn it looked and felt like flaky paper.

Some of you guys saw me making this at the '08 Fall Climb...

VecBridge_1.jpg


This is it dissected after it failed. Two separate eye/eye elements made from 8mm Vectran (HRC without the cover). Both were covered with a Dacron sheath from some old (very old) dynamic rock rope. They fit tightly inside the sheath and gave it an oval crossection. I rode this bridge for just over a year, best one I've ever used, smoother in transition than any webbing bridge BECAUSE it didn't bend so easily, nor did it twist and bite the way rope bridges do. I was happy with it.

VectranBridge_27.jpg


This is the flaky paper effect up close.

VectranBridge_23.jpg


I figured out it was toast way the hell up after a long footlock... during which I rested on it a few times. I was hanging on 25 year old sheath and #4 whipping twine. I noticed it because the rings stopped sliding (I ride two). I assume it had been way understrength for a long time.

For me, the lessons learned were:

- tech fiber is cool but it MUST remain visible, no sheath.

- if used in a bridge application, expect to change it often.

- I agree with Nick that good old polyester is probably the best bridge material available. Currently I'm using a piece of Polydyne with stopper knots... Polyester on the outside, Nylon on the inside.

- Bridges are severe duty no matter what material you use, they should be changed often, I'm going with every six months or whenever it looks too worn, which ever comes first.



I had terrible luck with webbing bridges. I use two small rings instead of one big one and they wore out super fast, that's why I made my own. I'm not sure if it was the rings but I can't think of another reason.

As long as we're on the subject of bridges, I cannot overemphasize the necessity of threadlocker on the shackles. I've also had a shackle fall off, again at height after a long FL... sometimes I wonder if I should be in a different line of work, my luck isn't good.

I check my bridge every time I climb... every single time I leave the ground. There is no substitute for just looking things over.



Those of us who had bridges fail rode them TOO LONG. That's easy to do when you can't actually see the strength elements to know that they are wearing out.

Technical rope fiber isn't suitable for long term use under continuous bending stress. I think that's well proven now but there was no way to know before. Vectran is supposed to be great with bending stress, significantly better than aramids which are known to be self abrasive. Obviously it's not regardless of what the spec sheets say.

The big take away on ALL these bridge failures is... THE SPLICING DID NOT FAIL, the material did.
 
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