Rope bridge appeal

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

My appeal to my tree climbing friends.
I'm looking for the oldest, most exposed, rattiest and worn 16 braid climbing rope. Something like Arbormaster.
I only need 3' of each rope to test in a harness rope bridge configuration.
There continues to be deaths, injuries, controversy and confusion over what seems to be a simple and inexpensive solution.
PM me and I'll send my address.

 

[Stephen Moore]

My appeal to my tree climbing friends.
I'm looking for the oldest, most exposed, rattiest and worn 16 braid climbing rope. Something like Arbormaster.
I only need 3' of each rope to test in a harness rope bridge configuration.
There continues to be deaths, injuries, controversy and confusion over what seems to be a simple and inexpensive solution.
PM me and I'll send my address.

Yoyoman, I wonder if the knots used in the rope bridge is the culprit? Are the bridges failing or the knots? What data do you already have?

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

So far most everything breaks at the rigging plate, the base of the stopper knot.

 

[Stephen Moore]

So far most everything breaks at the rigging plate, the base of the stopper knot.

You mean the plate fails or the knot behind the plate?

 

[treebilly]

I’m willing to guess the rope is breaking at the Wear point at the plate.

 

[colb]

@yoyoman I never hear of rope bridge failures. Can you expound on your source/s of information? I'd like to read them.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

@yoyoman I never hear of rope bridge failures. Can you expound on your source/s of information? I'd like to read them.

That was the problem with weaver’s saddle a few years ago, I believe it was the cougar. The reason for the multiple recalls. Richard may also be using the recent “harness failure” to re-spark his research into this little known topic that we should all be concerned with. Thank you for your time and dedication @yoyoman.
I have a section of safety blue hi-vee that was used for rigging and got a little hot on a natural crotch that I could sacrifice a few pieces of varying wear if you were interested in it. Pm me if you are!
Thanks again.

 

[Stephen Moore]

That was the problem with weaver’s saddle a few years ago, I believe it was the cougar. The reason for the multiple recalls. Richard may also be using the recent “harness failure” to re-spark his research into this little known topic that we should all be concerned with. Thank you for your time and dedication @yoyoman.
I have a section of safety blue hi-vee that was used for rigging and got a little hot on a natural crotch that I could sacrifice a few pieces of varying wear if you were interested in it. Pm me if you are!
Thanks again.

What part of the bridge was failing? This seems mysterious?

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

What part of the bridge was failing? This seems mysterious?

Yes because I’m not sure anyone really knows. When you have a fall a bunch of investigators show up that are used to looking at stabbings, shootings and other forms of death. Not tree guys. So unless one of “us” can get on scene and look at the equipment it’s difficult to get more than “harness failure”, which is accurate, just not accurate enough for us. I wouldn’t in a million years (out of respect) ask a crew member what happened without them coming to me first.
I have been involved in 2 tree related deaths (after the fact removal of the tree), and one pretty severe electrocution and it’s sobering to be standing where someone you knew spent their last seconds doing almost exactly what you are doing right now!
For the electrocution I was not there as a tree guy, but with the fire department and no one was looking at equipment, positioning, or really anything that would be of help to anyone. They didn’t know what they were looking at. The newspaper article quoted a police officer some thing to the effect of “a tree trimmer was electrocuted today at XYZ (address) the fire department rescued the individual and he is expected to make a full recovery”. More accurately the homeowner touched the line less than 18” from the tree he was in that he had no chance of getting the tree down even on a good day. And is lucky to be alive and may not walk right for quite some time.
So you can see why we don’t get info, because the people gathering don’t care as much about us as us.

 

[Stephen Moore]

Yes because I’m not sure anyone really knows. When you have a fall a bunch of investigators show up that are used to looking at stabbings, shootings and other forms of death. Not tree guys. So unless one of “us” can get on scene and look at the equipment it’s difficult to get more than “harness failure”, which is accurate, just not accurate enough for us. I wouldn’t in a million years (out of respect) ask a crew member what happened without them coming to me first.
I have been involved in 2 tree related deaths (after the fact removal of the tree), and one pretty severe electrocution and it’s sobering to be standing where someone you knew spent their last seconds doing almost exactly what you are doing right now!
For the electrocution I was not there as a tree guy, but with the fire department and no one was looking at equipment, positioning, or really anything that would be of help to anyone. They didn’t know what they were looking at. The newspaper article quoted a police officer some thing to the effect of “a tree trimmer was electrocuted today at XYZ (address) the fire department rescued the individual and he is expected to make a full recovery”. More accurately the homeowner touched the line less than 18” from the tree he was in that he had no chance of getting the tree down even on a good day. And is lucky to be alive and may not walk right for quite some time.
So you can see why we don’t get info, because the people gathering don’t care as much about us as us.

You mentioned a “problem” with the Weaver saddle, what was it and how was it rectified?

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

You mentioned a “problem” with the Weaver saddle, what was it and how was it rectified?

The bridge was wearing and breaking due to the material they were using. Something to do with core dependency with a cover that restricted inspection. They recalled the original bridge and replaced them with a different product. Then I believe they recalled that replacement and changed again with a manufacturer recommendation of replacing every 6 months (not sure on the time period, I don’t own one) but there was a replacement schedule recommended.

 

[Jehinten]

You mentioned a “problem” with the Weaver saddle, what was it and how was it rectified?

You might try searching the harness on here. I remember a thread on here about the harness and failures, in the later pages it may discuss the changes that were made. I do not remember the specefics of it as I don't use that harness.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Ran across this info today. Imagine the core of your bridge material made of something between aluminum and brass.

 

[colb]

Ran across this info today. Imagine the core of your bridge material made of something between aluminum and brass. View attachment 52490

You had me scrambling to check my crane tie-in sling, lol. It's just technora on the outer sheath for cut resistance, then dyneema and nylon inside. Curious how it got rated at only 5400lbs mbs with twin technora lines with dyneema in there...

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Ran across this info today. Imagine the core of your bridge material made of something between aluminum and brass.

@yoyoman Is the aluminum/brass range equivalent to the fibers in our ropes? Its hard for me to understand an equivalency between the solids and the fibers, which are flexible solids

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

@yoyoman Is the aluminum/brass range equivalent to the fibers in our ropes? Its hard for me to understand an equivalency between the solids and the fibers, which are flexible solids

My takeaway from this is that there's not a big distinction between fibers and solids. Imagine if you took a hair size strand of nylon and compared it to the same hair size strand of aluminum, not usually the way we think of things but I think that's the equivalency.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Anybody climb on Yale blue tongue? Or use that for a rope bridge? You kind of have to dig around to find out but it has a technora aramid fiber core.

 

[Stephen Moore]

My takeaway from this is that there's not a big distinction between fibers and solids. Imagine if you took a hair size strand of nylon and compared it to the same hair size strand of aluminum, not usually the way we think of things but I think that's the equivalency.

We use products of completely different material for the same thing fairly often, wire rope and synthetic ropes. I guess that qualifies as having similar uses with different qualities.

 

[JeffGu]

Anybody climb on Yale blue tongue?

I've got a hank of the 11.7mm blue/black/red/gold colored polyester doublebraid version that Yale called "Blue Tongue"...

24 Strand Braided Cover -- Solution Dyed Polyester
16 Strand Braided Core -- White Filament Polyester

They also made another (11mm) rope, also called "Blue Tongue" that was blue with yellow/red/yellow tracers that they marketed as an access line, polyester cover, Technora core.

That was a very confusing thing for them to do, but both ropes, I think, have been discontinued.
Neither rope is listed on their site, anymore.

 

[Stephen Moore]

I've got a hank of the 11.7mm blue/black/red/gold colored polyester doublebraid version that Yale called "Blue Tongue"...

24 Strand Braided Cover -- Solution Dyed Polyester
16 Strand Braided Core -- White Filament Polyester

They also made another (11mm) rope, also called "Blue Tongue" that was blue with yellow/red/yellow tracers that they marketed as an access line, polyester cover, Technora core.

That was a very confusing thing for them to do, but both ropes, I think, have been discontinued.
Neither rope is listed on their site, anymore.

Hmm that’s interesting? It’s probably a difficult task to balance the inner and outer materials so that they work well together. And some things just don’t appeal to the masses?