Root Failure When The Ground is Saturated with Rain

[climbingmonkey24]

Do you normally climb trees this size? If you don't, then that could be exacerbating any fear. It looks like a 80-90 ft pin oak. Meaning, you look at this one and say "if it fails, I don't stand a chance", whereas with smaller trees, you may not think that, even though the odds of failure and injury on smaller trees can be just as bad. A sort of optical illusion, if you will.
But, your weight on that tree probably won't amount to a measurable change in stability - unless you're going way out that runaway limb on lower right. Even then, I'd be more concerned about that limb's junction than the tree itself. That junction looks included. Now whether the tree will just uproot anyway, I don't think anyone can answer that one without an extensive analysis of some sort.

I don’t normally work in trees this big.

I guess what I’m wondering is should I post pone the work because of the rain, or should I not? I’m just trying to figure out how much risk the heavy rain and ground saturation may pose

 

[DSMc]

Reading your past posts, your 'fears' are disproportionately higher than most tree workers. This is a job that has risks. So why pick it as an occupation?

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Reading your past posts, your 'fears' are disproportionately higher than most tree workers. This is a job that has risks. So why pick it as an occupation?

Because I enjoy it??

I don’t usually get this nervous, but for some reason I had a thought of the tree failing or whatever And now my mind is running with it and all kinds of horrible possibilities

 

[Stumpsprouts]

But then what if the tree uproots...maybe I should bail on the job and tell the customer to hire someone else

Sounds like a plan

 

[climbingmonkey24]

So the tree is at risk for failure that’s what I thought

 

[colb]

Maybe you could install a line in the tree behind it and cut with a breakaway lanyard.

Walking is okay. The tree looks startlingly fine, but no one wants to say it. However, if you're mostly having fun and climbing safe, maybe it's just your MO to walk a bit more than the next guy. Try to build your capacity to walk - have a few reliable subs, a contract clause, etc. Own it and move forward. No one wants to be that guy who walked, but it's kind of cool to me that you climb in spite of your anxieties.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I’ve done plenty of jobs like this before in trees this size. I hate risking damaging my reputation over something so silly to cancel the day before with no Good reason.

Maybe just dealing with it and getting the job done it better.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

There is another nearby tree I could put a backup line in just to give me the illusion of more safety.

this isn’t an ability issue it’s a confidence / anxiety issue. Some days I’m fine and other days I could be overly nervous and make something out to be riskier then it actually is

 

[colb]

I’ve done plenty of jobs like this before in trees this size. I hate risking damaging my reputation over something so silly to cancel the day before with no Good reason.

Maybe just dealing with it and getting the job done it better.

You'll definitely get that reputation at some point soon, but reputation might be something you can work with. For instance, you can tell your clients that you have occassional anxiety and may need to cancel, sub, or delay the job. Honesty can get you business. A lot of people will be slightly entertained by having an anxious climber aloft.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I’ve already have a great reputation built, I don’t want to tarnish it

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I think I need to just buck up and get it done

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Maybe just calm the anxiety and think more rational

 

[Stumpsprouts]

So the tree is at risk for failure that’s what I thought

No.

I would be astonished and thrilled to start my day in such a low risk tree.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

No.

I would be astonished and thrilled to start my day in such a low risk tree.

Why? Do you usually work in hazard trees?

 

[rico]

Coming from a place of concern and kindness I would strongly suggest that you seek some professional help in dealing with your serious fear/anxiety issues.. It has gotten to the point where it is crippling you and making you irrational. Time to deal with it bro..

 

[LordFarkwad]

Would it be possible to have another climber you respect come out and get their opinion on the tree AND/OR simply be there to watch you climb?

I'm nowhere near as far along as you in my treework/climbing CV, but I know that one thing which helps me immensely is having a climber on site, on the ground, as a second set of eyes, and as a reassuring voice. When I first started getting into just recreational tree climbing, and had been doing it on my own for a few months, I was blown away by how reassuring it felt to simply see other climbers trusting their gear, trusting the tree, etc. And, it also helped me to gain confidence in assessing the stability of trees I was about to climb.

Just a thought. Might be as simple as having a climbing bud come out, just to be there. Not as a permanent solution, but as a confidence-builder in situations that you personally are sketched out by, but others might not be.

 

[Jehinten]

You've mentioned that your very lightweight in other threads, there's really no concern for a tree that size of a 135lb guy climbing it. If you need peace of mind, set a rope in the top and pull as horizontally as you can in every direction with 500+ lbs. Then you'll know at its worse loading it can hold more than you could possibly put on it during a climbing.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Why? Do you usually work in hazard trees?

More often than not. People do not call me and the companies I work for to work on healthy trees. If they are healthy we might cable or prune them, but it would be dang near impossible to introduce enough force while pruning a tree to make it tip over. I don’t want to pound my chest like a gorilla and talk about some bad-to-the-bone removals I have done... but the tree you’ve shared here, from what I can see, would be extremely low risk.

How many years have you been climbing and what kind of mentorship have you had? I’m trying to be gentle, but from a lot of the things you have shared it seems to me you might benefit from working with a more experienced climber for a while. You could just hire a sub one day a week. I don’t like the idea of you sucking it up when you’re afraid of this tree. You should approach the work with confidence that comes from experience. That’s why I agreed that walking from this job is a good idea for you. Stick with what is within or juuuust a little outside your comfort zone. That will keep you coming safe home every night.

I went out on my own after 3 years experience and it was a shitshow. I didn’t have enough mentorship. After a few months of that I got with a company and worked with other arborists for another 4 years. Now I’ve been on my own for a year, but I will still hire on experienced contract climbers for a complicated removal, even just to have the reassurance that comes with working with a professional. I am always, always, always learning, every day.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I will also add that I had a lot of work to do around baseline anxiety and fear at height, especially this winter for some reason. Just trusting that a rope, a knot, a device,- harness, would hold me. Really hard to work with that mindset! There are a collection of threads regarding fear here on the buzz that I found truly helpful.

 

[LordFarkwad]

You've mentioned that your very lightweight in other threads, there's really no concern for a tree that size of a 135lb guy climbing it. If you need peace of mind, set a rope in the top and pull as horizontally as you can in every direction with 500+ lbs. Then you'll know at its worse loading it can hold more than you could possibly put on it during a climbing.

This. Confidence-inspiring. Edit: Even just a hundred pounds of side-load from a horizontal pull line would likely be more than you could apply without some major jumping around and limb-walking far out.

@climbingmonkey24, does your discomfort persist after you've dropped your bodyweight's worth of pruning debris from a tree? I find that often helps me become much more comfortable mentally after I've freed up a few hundred pounds from a tree, so that I know the total load on the tree, even with me in it, is lower than it was prior to my ascent.