Rigging a spar

Reg

Branched out member
Location
Victoria, BC
Nothing big or exciting, but still had to be done right to stop any of the logs escaping and rolling down the hill into the house. Steve has a 1.5 ton Tirfor Winch set on the hill for pulling the logs. I didn’t think footage would be worthy of a video but upon playing it back it actually looked passable. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60kSkXlglQA
 
Nice, Reg. I liked the climbing footage showing your FC and general set up.

The double pulleys/lines/bollards are nice...nothing like reducing the stress on gear by 50%.

What kinda tree was that? I'll guess locust.

Thanks for posting.
 
I see you backed up the spar from sliding down hill with the yellow line. Did it move much down hill, or did it stay?

I've had a dog do the very same thing to me once. The problem wasn't totally the dog either. The groundsmen didn't say anything to get the dogs attention in my situation. I didn't hear anyone with your situation. Did the groundies try to get the dog away?

The more I see the double lowering lines with blocking down spars, the more I like it.
 
Double lines for large spar rigging is the way to go. Hands down the best way I've seen it. It might take double the time to setup but its at least double as safe as a single 3/4"-1" line safe. If one does fail you have another there to back you up. Another good idea from Reg.
 
Thanks alot.

Cory, the tree was a sycamore

[ QUOTE ]
I see you backed up the spar from sliding down hill with the yellow line. Did it move much down hill, or did it stay?

I've had a dog do the very same thing to me once. The problem wasn't totally the dog either. The groundsmen didn't say anything to get the dogs attention in my situation. I didn't hear anyone with your situation. Did the groundies try to get the dog away?

The more I see the double lowering lines with blocking down spars, the more I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The log sat there just fine jamin, I didn't mean to cut the end of the vid so abruptly but had lost interest by that stage of the editing.

They made the dog sit down after the event, but if you look at the clip Steve just watches as the dog runs all the way down the hill without so much as a word
confused.gif


The double lines is still work Jamin, especially setting those 1-inch slings, so you gotta be organised. It might even take a couple of goes to work out the easiest order to set everything up, for that reason you really need to make the logs count or its hardly worth it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqK8z_4GyM
I started by cutting the notch and then letting the saw down while I set up the rigging. I find it easier to finish one system before setting up the second....that way the first set of lines can be made use of in positioning/pinching the second while you are tying them. Using a false-crotch/tie-in up above is also a big help, so long as it is safe to do so. No doubt it would be far easier to use 2 - 5/8 lines with 3/4 slings, yet still a safer bet than a single 3/4 line with 1-inch sling....especially if you have only a short distance to bring the logs to a halt.
 
Reg, big fan of the vids mate, 1 question, I noticed that you generally set the lowerind device directly below where the log is dropping, has this ever caused a problems? It has for me, damaged a Hobbs once as a log was lowered to far and bent a fairlead. I now try to set it on the back or to the side of the dropzone and accept that there may be some added friction and wear on the rope as it spirals around the tree. I wouldn't want you to damage that nice new lowering device now!

Looks like the nights are drawing in in the north west, and some snow in the them there pennine mountains.
 
One nice thing that I noticed about Reg taking the time to setup the rigging with two blocks and lowering lines, is that when a big piece of wood is lowered out (especially if it has to be snubbed) it can hit the trunk fairly hard without coming into contact with the lines and without smashing them or pinching them the way that a single lowering line can.

Sometimes with heavy, dynamic rigging it pays to spend the extra time to setup the proper works, and be sure that everything will handle the stresses. Reg has showed us this again and again.

Thanks Reg!
 
Rock&Trees, this is my second Blaze Rope.

Brendon, Tom is right, the last log on the vid smacks the device hard, the footage is in slow motion. Under normal circumstances I’d have worked around it but the device in the vid is just an early prototype, smaller and weaker than the production models and its still part of my role test the devices in such a way….and better still if I can catch it on camera.

You were lucky in hitting you Hobbs that it was just the fair lead and not the spool that got damaged. A bent fairlead should be easy enough to reinstate.
 
Reg,
Nice video.. you leave nothing to chance and the helmet cam shows a lot of detail from which much can be learned... That said, I do have a few comments/suggestions/criticisms which can hopefully generate some good discussion.

I don't like the placement of the pulley on the first cut, so far below the notch. If you were using that placement to make the second cut as well, from the same placement, and you weren't worried about the additional shock loading from the longer fall, then that is understandable, (and it looks like that is the case) then fine, though an inexperienced climber might look at your video and make the mistake of thinking its good to place the pulley so far below the notch on a regular basis...

Cutting a narrow humboldt for the final fall, would have dropped the but uphill of the stump, before the tip hit, thus preventing the log from sliding or bouncing back into the wall, and precluding the need for a control line on the final cut. That is one of the rare times that a humboldt is a good cut in suburban arboriculture!

I generally cut my notches shallower unless there is a need for a deep notch, both in falling and when aloft. Also making the top cuts first, is highly recommended for ease of matching the two facing cuts, especially when movement and therefore vision is limited, when standing in the hooks...

And I personally don't like the double blocks, just cause it seems like it is a lot of needless extra work. A single block and line should be well within the safe working load limits of the your gear, for those sized pieces... Have you done the math? (that said I did just break my first rope on Wednesday)...

That is my first impression, and it could be that we all just like what we are used to... Maybe using the two blocks and lines is a time saver, by allowing larger pieces to be rigged, and thus saving time by making fewer cuts, and having to move fewer times, while the double bollard device keeps the ground work simple.. Thus your point about "making the logs worth it"... Who knows for sure until they try it... thankfully we can usually either fall the spar or use a crane, or at least set up the rigging from a bucket truck...

Your attention to detail and precision in rigging is flawless and that is appreciated by many here. Thank you for taking the time and energy to make the videos. They are a lot of work and a gift to us all... I don't mean to sound ungrateful, I suppose I just lack the patience to set up riggin like that...
 
Reg,
Nice video.. you leave nothing to chance and the helmet cam shows a lot of detail from which much can be learned... That said, I do have a few comments/suggestions/criticisms which can hopefully generate some good discussion.

Thanks man, you're welcome

I don't like the placement of the pulley on the first cut, so far below the notch. If you were using that placement to make the second cut as well, from the same placement, and you weren't worried about the additional shock loading from the longer fall, then that is understandable, (and it looks like that is the case) then fine, though an inexperienced climber might look at your video and make the mistake of thinking its good to place the pulley so far below the notch on a regular basis...

Dan you are correct that another section followed from above the rigging point (not in the vid) so its placement was convenience. Consider also that neither log was heavy enough to cause a concern, relatively speaking that is. In the past I have dropped logs and branches from almost 15ft directly above a rigging point where it made more sense than to otherwise follow the book, guess you had to be there.


Cutting a narrow humboldt for the final fall, would have dropped the but uphill of the stump, before the tip hit, thus preventing the log from sliding or bouncing back into the wall, and precluding the need for a control line on the final cut. That is one of the rare times that a humboldt is a good cut in suburban arboriculture!

A humboldt generally needs some top-weight to break the hinge, unlike the relatively short log in the vid. I would however have used a humboldt had I wanted to close the notch without breaking the hinge and then cut some more to let it down gently….but I obviously didn’t want to do that.

If you have enough top-weight to break a narrow, shallow notch then the butt can reach the ground first whether using a conventional or Humboldt….the difference in the two is how the opposing surfaces meet as the notch closes….because of this a humboldt can initiate a cleaner more instantaneous break, thus the tree (especially a tall one) is carried further clear of the stump because its momentum has only incurred the slightest delay. A wide Humboldt achieves almost nothing for the same reason….and without boring the middle of the one in the video or cutting the hinge to within a mm of its life then there was more to lose than what was to gain. The TreeHouse might be the better domain for Humboldt talk Dan. The log didn't move anyway, see photo.


I generally cut my notches shallower unless there is a need for a deep notch, both in falling and when aloft. Also making the top cuts first, is highly recommended for ease of matching the two facing cuts, especially when movement and therefore vision is limited, when standing in the hooks...

Dan I’ll cut them whichever way the moment takes me, I have a relatively good eye-sight - hand coordination.


And I personally don't like the double blocks, just cause it seems like it is a lot of needless extra work. A single block and line should be well within the safe working load limits of the your gear, for those sized pieces... Have you done the math? (that said I did just break my first rope on Wednesday)...

All things considered, probably about 2.5 tons hit the slings on the second log….sure a single rope and sling can take that, but how many times? I have scorched, melted and so shortened the life of so many in the past, and they are not cheap….but are still nothing compared to the potential damage of losing a heavy log if a rope fails. Yeah I do the maths Dan, but please don’t ask me to recite probably the most repeated, tediously over-stated equations that are so often spoken in such a topic. People have been doing that for many years now, same ole script but no further forward. I suppose yes, its new and relevant to folks coming into the job so that’s fair enough….but solve the problem, don’t just write about it for decade after decade….that’s all I’m trying to do here with this technique, get a little further forward.


That is my first impression, and it could be that we all just like what we are used to... Maybe using the two blocks and lines is a time saver, by allowing larger pieces to be rigged, and thus saving time by making fewer cuts, and having to move fewer times, while the double bollard device keeps the ground work simple.. Thus your point about "making the logs worth it"... Who knows for sure until they try it... thankfully we can usually either fall the spar or use a crane, or at least set up the rigging from a bucket truck...

Your attention to detail and precision in rigging is flawless and that is appreciated by many here. Thank you for taking the time and energy to make the videos. They are a lot of work and a gift to us all... I don't mean to sound ungrateful, I suppose I just lack the patience to set up riggin like that...

To live with my wife is to know patience, rigging is a breeze. Your alright Dan!
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Fine work, as usual Reg.

What was to become of the logs, to make them "worth it"? Milling?

I've often wondered what happen when a log smacks the spar and rigging rope. Seems like premature wear, which would be more likely avoided by the double ropes off toward the sides. Is is just a convenient side-benefit, or designed?

What do you figure those logs weighed, roughly? Heavy! And within specs, as shown by the success.

Your videos, naturally, show the exciting, technical, big boys. Do you do much in the way of less-technical jobs, or do they contract those to less experienced climbers (saw you say that you contract climb for about 8 different companies)?

Thanks for informing/ sharing with us.
 
Fine work, as usual Reg.

Thankyou

What was to become of the logs, to make them "worth it"? Milling?

What I meant was to make the sections of a time-saving size of which to make up for what is lost in tying the additional rigging. The logs were all cut up for firewood.

I've often wondered what happen when a log smacks the spar and rigging rope. Seems like premature wear, which would be more likely avoided by the double ropes off toward the sides. Is is just a convenient side-benefit, or designed?

It was all thought out before hand and then hoped-for that folks will like it.

What do you figure those logs weighed, roughly? Heavy! And within specs, as shown by the success.
Up to 700 kg maybe, I wasn’t really paying much attention at the time though.

Your videos, naturally, show the exciting, technical, big boys. Do you do much in the way of less-technical jobs, or do they contract those to less experienced climbers (saw you say that you contract climb for about 8 different companies)?

Sometimes we just have busy days, where the work might not be technically difficult but there is much to deal with. Perhaps 30% of the work I do is pruning, used to be more. I’ll do anything so long as it’s paying….drag brush, carry logs, sweep driveways, scoop up dog$hit if the job demands it.

Tree&surf there were two 1 inch slings. Thanks
 
I wonder though with the double ropes, it would be very hard to run them both equally. I wonder if one of the ropes actually ends up taking the majority of the load or do they share pretty well. If one takes the load more than the other, than chances are if one breaks the other would be sure to follow. because it would be shockloaded even more. Or is that the case. Very clean and smooth job reg and for posting the video. its great watching other people work.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder though with the double ropes, it would be very hard to run them both equally. I wonder if one of the ropes actually ends up taking the majority of the load or do they share pretty well. If one takes the load more than the other, than chances are if one breaks the other would be sure to follow. because it would be shockloaded even more. Or is that the case. Very clean and smooth job reg and for posting the video. its great watching other people work.

[/ QUOTE ] Both lines are pre-tensioned equally to start with, then the groundworker carefully wraps a prussic around both the lines to bondd them, the prussic is then linked to an additional single line via a karabiner....the grounds person then only has to hold the single line thus contoling the dounble lines at an equal rate. Seems to work. Thanks
 
[ QUOTE ]
Both lines are pre-tensioned equally to start with, then the groundworker carefully wraps a prussic around both the lines to bondd them, the prussic is then linked to an additional single line via a karabiner....the grounds person then only has to hold the single line thus contoling the dounble lines at an equal rate. Seems to work. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a picture of this. I can of can picture it in my head but I would love a clearer picture.
 

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