Resources for crew leaders.
- Thread starter banjo
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to go "buddy' before "boss" which is something i need to improve on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Me too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to go "buddy' before "boss" which is something i need to improve on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Me too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
Yes, the great question of how to be a good Forman!! I too have often wondered this same question. I too am still growing as a forman and a leader of a crew. It can be a challenge for sure.
One thing that I have learned is that not everyone is working with you because they love trees. Some are only around for a pay check. This can be hard for leaders who are extremely motivated and passionate about trees. Ted I know you, and you fall into this category. You are working with trees because you love it!!
I absolutely agree with starting off strict, and then you can lighten up when things start to settle into a normal working environment. With some people it might take a week, other maybe a year, some you might never be able to lighten up with.. My wife teaches 5th grade and she always reminds me that at the beginning of the year she has to be extremely strict. She has to set the tone of what is expected to maintain control of the class. As the year progresses she can lighten up, as the kids know what is expected and she has set out what the expectations are. I think this is also a good way to run a crew.
The buddy thing can be a very tough situation for sure. Many employees go to the bar after work and socialize. Many say its great team building. Should a forman be involved in that as well? I know many corporate companies wouldn't allow that. Or is it a good opportunity to really get to know your co-workers?? Is this an environment that would encourage favoritism should an issue arise between two co-workers on your crew??
Also how to you inspire someone to want to change?? I work with an individual who has been doing tree work for 15 years. His skill set is very limited, he is not willing to learn anything new. How do you, as a leader, inspire in him the hunger to WANT to become batter at his craft??
One thing that I have learned is that not everyone is working with you because they love trees. Some are only around for a pay check. This can be hard for leaders who are extremely motivated and passionate about trees. Ted I know you, and you fall into this category. You are working with trees because you love it!!
I absolutely agree with starting off strict, and then you can lighten up when things start to settle into a normal working environment. With some people it might take a week, other maybe a year, some you might never be able to lighten up with.. My wife teaches 5th grade and she always reminds me that at the beginning of the year she has to be extremely strict. She has to set the tone of what is expected to maintain control of the class. As the year progresses she can lighten up, as the kids know what is expected and she has set out what the expectations are. I think this is also a good way to run a crew.
The buddy thing can be a very tough situation for sure. Many employees go to the bar after work and socialize. Many say its great team building. Should a forman be involved in that as well? I know many corporate companies wouldn't allow that. Or is it a good opportunity to really get to know your co-workers?? Is this an environment that would encourage favoritism should an issue arise between two co-workers on your crew??
Also how to you inspire someone to want to change?? I work with an individual who has been doing tree work for 15 years. His skill set is very limited, he is not willing to learn anything new. How do you, as a leader, inspire in him the hunger to WANT to become batter at his craft??
- Location
- North of Seattle
I have run a 3 man crew for 10 years now. It was weird to become "the boss" when I started my own biz. I made some mistakes in the early days. Still do, but getting better.
I am a baseball fan - I try to think as my role (boss/owner/climber) as like the Manager. Jim Leyland of the Tigers? Maybe Joe Torre. Not Terri Francona. The best - Joe Matton of the Rays!
I am a baseball fan - I try to think as my role (boss/owner/climber) as like the Manager. Jim Leyland of the Tigers? Maybe Joe Torre. Not Terri Francona. The best - Joe Matton of the Rays!
djm
Participating member
- Location
- Seacoast NH
I'm not sure if others have run into this but it seems that alot of people don' t really want to put the effort in to be good at their job. There are so many guys that I have talked to that expect their bosses to send them to courses and teach them everything. They tell you they want to learn and then when given the oppurtunity they bail. I have worked with guys with as many years in the field as me and they hadn't ever used a portawrap and had no defined rigging or pruning skills. I remember when I decided to make arboriculture my profession. I read everything. I knew stuff from books and articles before I could do them. Everyone is different I realize that. As an owner I find it frustrating when you make all the info available and incentivise learning and its not taken advantage of. My wife tells me that my expectations of myself and others are high but what is the point where you say enough is enough. Not everyone is motivated I guess. Thoughts? How do you guys deal with this?
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
[ QUOTE ]
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ted and I were professionally associated AND friends before I went full time with my business, so this has been hard for both of us. I wasn't trying to be funny at all, the buddy thing is tough for me too. We have alot to learn as an owner/foreman dynamic, and it is not easy. But this thread is about Ted's skills as a foreman, not our relationship. I'll discuss that with him in person.
-Tom
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ted and I were professionally associated AND friends before I went full time with my business, so this has been hard for both of us. I wasn't trying to be funny at all, the buddy thing is tough for me too. We have alot to learn as an owner/foreman dynamic, and it is not easy. But this thread is about Ted's skills as a foreman, not our relationship. I'll discuss that with him in person.
-Tom
- Location
- Harrisburg, Mo.
From my days at the big orange machine...
Tell - Show - Try out - Follow up.
If you don't tell them what you expect from the beginning, you should not expect them to know exactly what you want.
The rest explains itself, show them how you want it done, let them try it out, go over what they did well and what they could improve on.
It is a lot easier to type it than it is to implement it.
As someone stated earlier some people are just in it for a paycheck. They are hard to teach.
If you try to be buddy with these guys they will use it against you.
If you find someone who is self motivated and eager to learn life is much easier.
Good luck, Brad
P.S. sorry if that rambled on a bit.
Tell - Show - Try out - Follow up.
If you don't tell them what you expect from the beginning, you should not expect them to know exactly what you want.
The rest explains itself, show them how you want it done, let them try it out, go over what they did well and what they could improve on.
It is a lot easier to type it than it is to implement it.
As someone stated earlier some people are just in it for a paycheck. They are hard to teach.
If you try to be buddy with these guys they will use it against you.
If you find someone who is self motivated and eager to learn life is much easier.
Good luck, Brad
P.S. sorry if that rambled on a bit.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ted and I were professionally associated AND friends before I went full time with my business, so this has been hard for both of us. I wasn't trying to be funny at all, the buddy thing is tough for me too. We have alot to learn as an owner/foreman dynamic, and it is not easy. But this thread is about Ted's skills as a foreman, not our relationship. I'll discuss that with him in person.
-Tom [/quote
Tom I hope you know I was joking around. If things are to be serious all the time I will refrain from having a little fun. I see people are joking around all the time but when I do so it gets misinterpreted, my poor sense of humor I guess. Anyway sorry if I offended you. Take care.
[ QUOTE ]
Tom you can be quite the comedian. Are you saying that there are no bosses in your crew only buddies? Glad I know the work relationship you two have. I think someone is going to be a meany boss tomorrow huh Tom? All you guys from Ma keep the buzz fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ted and I were professionally associated AND friends before I went full time with my business, so this has been hard for both of us. I wasn't trying to be funny at all, the buddy thing is tough for me too. We have alot to learn as an owner/foreman dynamic, and it is not easy. But this thread is about Ted's skills as a foreman, not our relationship. I'll discuss that with him in person.
-Tom [/quote
Tom I hope you know I was joking around. If things are to be serious all the time I will refrain from having a little fun. I see people are joking around all the time but when I do so it gets misinterpreted, my poor sense of humor I guess. Anyway sorry if I offended you. Take care.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Swing, don't sweat it, I was just clarifying. Sorry if I sounded douchey. 
-Tom
-Tom
Check out TCIA's Home Study course. The third manual is called Crew Leader, or something like that. Get CEU's, too. A great tool to sorta guide you around.
http://128.241.193.252/Public/product_home_study_programs.htm
I hope this is the right way to paste a link? I'm such a noob.....
http://128.241.193.252/Public/product_home_study_programs.htm
I hope this is the right way to paste a link? I'm such a noob.....
- Location
- Cape Cod
Banjo, this is a great topic. As a leader, if your guys know that you really respect them and you value what all of them have to say, then when conflict arises you can speak the blunt truth to them without worrying if anyone will get offended at you.
The trick is build as good of a relationship as you can with all of them in the times between conflict. Even if you don't naturally get along with some of the guys you work with, it's your job as a leader to "get along" with everybody. That gives you an inroad to be able to flat out correct them when they need it and they know your are not just being a jerk because you have proven to them that you really do care about the well being of each man on the crew.
The trick is build as good of a relationship as you can with all of them in the times between conflict. Even if you don't naturally get along with some of the guys you work with, it's your job as a leader to "get along" with everybody. That gives you an inroad to be able to flat out correct them when they need it and they know your are not just being a jerk because you have proven to them that you really do care about the well being of each man on the crew.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking to improve a skill set that has never been my strong suit, crew leadership. I need to develop ways to motivate people, enforce safety protocols, educate people, and do it in a way that doesn't detract from my fun loving, I love my job attitude. The biggest difficulty for me is managing conflict between employees without seeming like I'm taking sides or just seeming like a prick.
[/ QUOTE ]
First, you don't motivate people, you learn what motivates them and provide that type of environment. Each person is different in their motivations. Get to know your crew members and have them get to know each other.
Firm and fair. You don't have to be a meany just say what you mean and mean what you say. Be consistent with all your crew specially where safety is concerned. Establish what the norms are and enforce them without compromise with everyone. Be sure you follow them to the letter. That's the lead by example part. This way your short cuts won't become the crew's. Where protocols aren't followed then be sure there are consequences besides be yelling at. Set those so they are fair and reasonable.
Educating vs. training? Which is it and know the difference. With knowledge you want to demonstrate it's use on the job and use it regularly. Training is a process of show them, allow them to practice it then have them demonstrate their proficiency. if it's stuff they don't use often then test them casually on a regular basis.
You make it fun by being yourself and showing your enthusiasm for it.
Conflicts between workers can be extremely difficult. Focus on keeping it out of the work day. Does it have something to do with work? if not then have them take it off the job. Reinforce the notion that you don't have to like your co-workers just respect them and remember you're there to get the job done. When dealing with conflict be sure to stay neutral, get both sides to the story, ascertain its relevance to work and deal with it that context. Offer some suggestions as to how they can resolve the issue outside of the workplace. make it clear though personal matters are not to be brought to the job.
By dealing with things as the come up in a firm and consistent manner that puts the business as the focus you'll not be a prick just a manager.
I'm looking to improve a skill set that has never been my strong suit, crew leadership. I need to develop ways to motivate people, enforce safety protocols, educate people, and do it in a way that doesn't detract from my fun loving, I love my job attitude. The biggest difficulty for me is managing conflict between employees without seeming like I'm taking sides or just seeming like a prick.
[/ QUOTE ]
First, you don't motivate people, you learn what motivates them and provide that type of environment. Each person is different in their motivations. Get to know your crew members and have them get to know each other.
Firm and fair. You don't have to be a meany just say what you mean and mean what you say. Be consistent with all your crew specially where safety is concerned. Establish what the norms are and enforce them without compromise with everyone. Be sure you follow them to the letter. That's the lead by example part. This way your short cuts won't become the crew's. Where protocols aren't followed then be sure there are consequences besides be yelling at. Set those so they are fair and reasonable.
Educating vs. training? Which is it and know the difference. With knowledge you want to demonstrate it's use on the job and use it regularly. Training is a process of show them, allow them to practice it then have them demonstrate their proficiency. if it's stuff they don't use often then test them casually on a regular basis.
You make it fun by being yourself and showing your enthusiasm for it.
Conflicts between workers can be extremely difficult. Focus on keeping it out of the work day. Does it have something to do with work? if not then have them take it off the job. Reinforce the notion that you don't have to like your co-workers just respect them and remember you're there to get the job done. When dealing with conflict be sure to stay neutral, get both sides to the story, ascertain its relevance to work and deal with it that context. Offer some suggestions as to how they can resolve the issue outside of the workplace. make it clear though personal matters are not to be brought to the job.
By dealing with things as the come up in a firm and consistent manner that puts the business as the focus you'll not be a prick just a manager.
- Location
- Victoria BC
Hi Banjo, great thread.
You can be kind and be a strong leader.
Giving clear expectations is really helpful because people can't read your mind, and leading by example sets the company culture of having fun and taking pride in the job.
One cool boss I had managed to be a friend to our crew of six as well as being strict when necessary because of safety or time constraints.
I think his strength came from giving genuine respect and taking the time to listen. This gave him insight into what motivated each person, whether that was job satisfaction, money, praise, recognition or status.
He gave criticism in a constructive way that focused on the positive changes that needed to be made and would phrase motivation during time crunches as 'we' need to get this done rather than 'you guys' better hurry up.
You could tell he thought about our goals in our professional and personal lives and would go out of his way to do little things that would help us out.
At crew meetings it was reinforced that getting along was a priority. The boss enlisted help from each of us to make all the others feel like they belonged. This happened partly through humour and banter to create camaraderie between very different personality types and partly by speaking well of those not present instead of back-stabbing.
Conflict resolution focused on what was best for the company and possible within the job parameters. If it was a personality conflict he would ask 'what do you think could help out the other person involved?' which seemed to get people to change their train of thought away from blaming.
At the end of our busiest season he would have all of us and our families over to his house for a BBQ. A lot of little things added up to it being the most productive crew that everyone in the company wanted to work on.
You can be kind and be a strong leader.
Giving clear expectations is really helpful because people can't read your mind, and leading by example sets the company culture of having fun and taking pride in the job.
One cool boss I had managed to be a friend to our crew of six as well as being strict when necessary because of safety or time constraints.
I think his strength came from giving genuine respect and taking the time to listen. This gave him insight into what motivated each person, whether that was job satisfaction, money, praise, recognition or status.
He gave criticism in a constructive way that focused on the positive changes that needed to be made and would phrase motivation during time crunches as 'we' need to get this done rather than 'you guys' better hurry up.
You could tell he thought about our goals in our professional and personal lives and would go out of his way to do little things that would help us out.
At crew meetings it was reinforced that getting along was a priority. The boss enlisted help from each of us to make all the others feel like they belonged. This happened partly through humour and banter to create camaraderie between very different personality types and partly by speaking well of those not present instead of back-stabbing.
Conflict resolution focused on what was best for the company and possible within the job parameters. If it was a personality conflict he would ask 'what do you think could help out the other person involved?' which seemed to get people to change their train of thought away from blaming.
At the end of our busiest season he would have all of us and our families over to his house for a BBQ. A lot of little things added up to it being the most productive crew that everyone in the company wanted to work on.
- Location
- Stockholm, Sweden
I´ve been crewleader and had my own employees for 13 years both in landscaping and treecare, and i find that beeing buddies with your staff or not is depending on your personality not theirs and since i tend to be friendly with my crew i´ve learned the hard way to have a clear definition on when i´m boss and when we joke around.
So i think you should go out with your crew after work for a beer, buy them one thank them for good work and go home and never get drunk or start discussing work if anyone starts talking work or worktechniques say we look at that first thing monday.
Whenever around customers have a respectfull tone towards the crew and talk about them as coworkers or colleagues but go through the worksite and the customers wishes alone while the rest prepares for work, then discuss the work at hand and take their input seriously you should actually incourage it.
As my first boss told me before giving me a crew to run, "always remember that 60% of all workers come for the paycheck nothing else. It will at all time be your arse i come for if the jobb goes wrong not your crew´s thats your job and i pay you to do it. When a job is well done and gives a profit your all a team when it goes to hell and costs the company money your on your own"
And what i find to be the single most important characteristic of a good boss is to know your own shortcommings and let your staff take the lead if they are more competent at a specifik task.
So i think you should go out with your crew after work for a beer, buy them one thank them for good work and go home and never get drunk or start discussing work if anyone starts talking work or worktechniques say we look at that first thing monday.
Whenever around customers have a respectfull tone towards the crew and talk about them as coworkers or colleagues but go through the worksite and the customers wishes alone while the rest prepares for work, then discuss the work at hand and take their input seriously you should actually incourage it.
As my first boss told me before giving me a crew to run, "always remember that 60% of all workers come for the paycheck nothing else. It will at all time be your arse i come for if the jobb goes wrong not your crew´s thats your job and i pay you to do it. When a job is well done and gives a profit your all a team when it goes to hell and costs the company money your on your own"
And what i find to be the single most important characteristic of a good boss is to know your own shortcommings and let your staff take the lead if they are more competent at a specifik task.
I've had many people read this article-"The Most Praised Generation Goes to Work"-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117702894815776259.html.
Another resource is a book you've probably heard of-The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. The book itself isn't extremely well written, but he's an excellent speaker, so it makes a great book on tape. It's probably a lot more than what you are thinking of in terms of being an good foreman, but I'd argue it's well worth the read.
Tim
Another resource is a book you've probably heard of-The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. The book itself isn't extremely well written, but he's an excellent speaker, so it makes a great book on tape. It's probably a lot more than what you are thinking of in terms of being an good foreman, but I'd argue it's well worth the read.
Tim
- Location
- Southern RI
Banjo I would enjoy meeting you guys someday and we could talk about the industry in general and the challenges within it.
As far as the foreman concept goes, for fouteen years I was a foreman at a Ag school and worked with 14-18 year olds in an ag educational/ work setting that was co-ed...Whew sometimes I wonder how I did it.....
As far as the foreman concept goes, for fouteen years I was a foreman at a Ag school and worked with 14-18 year olds in an ag educational/ work setting that was co-ed...Whew sometimes I wonder how I did it.....
Frax
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
I've had many people read this article-"The Most Praised Generation Goes to Work"-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117702894815776259.html.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just read this. Excellent.
I've had many people read this article-"The Most Praised Generation Goes to Work"-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117702894815776259.html.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just read this. Excellent.
Frax
Participating member
Realizing that managing other people is a skill that most of us need to actively work on is the first step. And the most important one.
Not very many people in my experience are naturally good at it. We all want to be liked. We are afraid of being called an a-hole or a bitch. (although some actually thrive on that). I think about and kind of privately study those very few people I admire for their people skills and try and emulate them.
Eric's (Oceans) first post is really bang on.
Thought and active effort by a groups' leader is absolutely required and makes an already challenging job even more so. The 'touchy-feely' sie of running a crew well is even more intimidating than the sometimes scary as hell job we do.
In the end though, if someone really isn't a fit with the group despite efforts or has competency issues so extreme that they are unsafe on the worksite the kindest thing you can do is end their employment. For their sake as well as the sake of those better performers who are being brought down by the 'bad apple'. I find these people rarely are enjoying their job anyway and have little interest in it.
Our jobs are tough enough without having to babysit.
Not very many people in my experience are naturally good at it. We all want to be liked. We are afraid of being called an a-hole or a bitch. (although some actually thrive on that). I think about and kind of privately study those very few people I admire for their people skills and try and emulate them.
Eric's (Oceans) first post is really bang on.
Thought and active effort by a groups' leader is absolutely required and makes an already challenging job even more so. The 'touchy-feely' sie of running a crew well is even more intimidating than the sometimes scary as hell job we do.
In the end though, if someone really isn't a fit with the group despite efforts or has competency issues so extreme that they are unsafe on the worksite the kindest thing you can do is end their employment. For their sake as well as the sake of those better performers who are being brought down by the 'bad apple'. I find these people rarely are enjoying their job anyway and have little interest in it.
Our jobs are tough enough without having to babysit.
